Bootcamp/Training Question

[zaika]

I am need of your help again.
Please.

I am curious to know about 1) how the draft worked, who got drafted, and when it started (I know it started before Pearl Harbor, but why?) and 2) after men were drafted or volunteered, how was it determined where they would go for training? Would they go to the nearest facility? Or did they get to choose? Was it random? Would it have been possible for a fella from Oregon to be ordered to report to a bootcamp across the country?

Also, any websites, books, articles, past threads would be appreciated.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

If I'm not mistaken the draft ended after WW2.....then was reinstated while I was in high school in the '60s(1964??) during the Viet Nam conflict. You had no input or choice of where you took Basic Training. I went to Ft.Knox,KY...others from Indiana went to Ft. Campbell,Ky.....Ft. Lenardwood,Mo...and other places.The draft was needed in order to call up a greater number of men quickly. After high school when I turned 18 yrs old..it was required to sign up with the Selective Service. After that you were,in short order,randomly called to take a physical to determine if you were healthy enough to receive A-1 status(eligable for draft)...or a deferment(4-F). At that time all married men with child....and "full time" college students could get deferments. Everyone was eligable for draft if 18 yrs old...not defered...or already in a branch of service.
Later on..early '70s??..a lottery replaced the normal draft. Still signed up at 18...but lottery numbers determined your chance of being drafted.
HD

 

[dhermann1]

Actually, as I recall, the draft was not abolished after WW II till the 70's. There had been a draft during the Civil War, and WW I, but they had been stopped at the end of the war. The draft was resumed in the beginning of 1941, I think. Definitely before Pearl Harbor. This was because the world situation had gotten so dangerous. Europe had been at war since Sept 1939, and the Japanese had been on the march since 1937. There were still isolationists and pacifists who said they'd never go, but most Americans realized by 1940 that the country needed to be prepared. They started out with a lottery, but changed the system when the war got going full tilt. I don't know what system they substituted. During Vietnam they started another lottery, so that young men would know right away what their chances of being drafted were. Each year they assigned all 19 year olds a number 1 to 365. If you had a 1, you'd be in the first batch called up. The higher your number, the less likely you were to be called. Vietnam era men who didn't go in the service will tell you "I had a high number". Once that year was up, I believe, you were out of danger.
As far as basic training goes, it was regional. In the Marine Corps those from east of the Mississippi went to Parris Island, South Carolina. Those in the west went to San Diego. Army draftees from my area, New York, went to Fort Dix, NJ. I don't know where the other Army basic training unites were.
BTW, the term Boot Camp refers to the Navy, and by association, the marines. All other branches received basic training.
Draft status is approximately as follows. The letter A means you're physically and mentally capable of serving. 1-A means that you're totally ready to be called up. Once you'd been discharged honorably, your draft status was 4-A.
4, meaning you were not liable for the draft, A meaning you were still mentally and physically fit to serve. 4-F meant you were not physically and/or mentally fit to serve (the F part) and were not liable to be called up (the 4 part). There were other statuses in between, with varying degrees of physical and liability levels.

 

[Fletch]

October, 1940, was the first draft lottery. It was covered on national radio. Secretary Stimson drew the number and FDR announced it. On hearing the number, a woman in the crowd gasped and (legend has it) fainted. The number was her son's.

There was a lot of sentiment against the draft in 1940 and a lot for it. That of course changed after Pearl Harbor.

The first few thousand were drafted for only one year's service. This too changed after Pearl Harbor. But there were a very few who went in late 1940 who were let out late in 1941, altho the patriotic thing to do was obviously to re-up.

 

[zaika]

thank you for the info so far, fellas! you wouldn't happen to have any book suggestions or anything, would you?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

The first lotteries during Viet Nam didn't begin until 1969...then progressed %wise in 1970..but not fully instituted untill 1971. Then the lotterytype draft ended in 1973. The Viet Nam conflict ended in 1975. So the lottery was actually for a very short period of that era for the 18-19 age group. Most all of us through the '60s untill 1971 were drafted by age(18 and up...oldest first)only. I turned 18 in July 1965 and was drafted July 1970 after being defered(married with child)then divorced....and was never involved with a lottery. Many thousands of us were drafted during this time.
It is not so well known..but for a short period of time ...the Marines drafted(I believe 1967 or 68)(one year only). A friend who graduated in '66 was drafted and sent to San Diego(Marines) from Indiana.
I served as a Drill Sgt. at Ft. Polk,La from 1970-72. We had Basic Training trainees from all over....NY...Philly...Ga...etc. They rushed them through in cycles...where ever there was an opening.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

thank you for the info so far, fellas! you wouldn't happen to have any book suggestions or anything, would you?

You might try Googling "Selective Service System" for more info....
HD

 

[Ben]

It is not so well known..but for a short period of time ...the Marines drafted(I believe 1967 or 68)(one year only). A friend who graduated in '66 was drafted and sent to San Diego(Marines) from Indiana.
I served as a Drill Sgt. at Ft. Polk,La from 1970-72. We had Basic Training trainees from all over....NY...Philly...Ga...etc. They rushed them through in cycles...where ever there was an opening.

Are you saying that the Marine Corps only took draftees from that year and the rest were volunteers?

Also, on a related note, can you tell us what it was like being a drill instructor? What kinds of things did you teach and do you think it really prepared recruits for combat? What kind of special training did you receive for that job?

 

[dhermann1]

I think there were several time during Vietnam that the Marines drafted. They only did it when necessary. I recall one month when their recruit quota was 12,000 and they had to draft 4,000. Something along those lines. The whole idea of being a Marine is that you're a volunteer, so they didn't like doing it much.

 

[zaika]

was the vietnam draft anything like the WWII draft in terms of how the lottery worked?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Are you saying that the Marine Corps only took draftees from that year and the rest were volunteers?

Also, on a related note, can you tell us what it was like being a drill instructor? What kinds of things did you teach and do you think it really prepared recruits for combat? What kind of special training did you receive for that job?

What I am saying is...that the Marines drafted to increase their ranks over the number of volunteers they expected. Afterall..it was war.

The Marines had DIs..or Drill Instructors. In the Army we were titled Drill Sgts. We were all NCOs which required that title. We were never addressed as "Sir". Basic Training was just what it implied..."basic". It mainly taught discipline..stamina...comradeship...some basic fighting techniques...weapons use,etc. Marching built the stamina..actually PT(Physical Training)was really secondary. Yes...I do believe that Basic Training(at that time) did have great influence on changing a boy into a man. Along with more specialized training..AIT,etc....a trainee learned the "basics" of survival and more... perhaps the ability to endure and to help others as well. Many of these draftees had never fired a gun..walked across a field....or been counted on to such an extreme. After all was said and done...WAR was still hell. However...a more capable man finally faced that combat. During those controversial times (Nam)..realising that I was training those surely going on to combat..to save their own ass...and,possibly,someone else's ass..encouraged me that I,indeed,was doing something very worthwhile.
I went to Drill Sgt school...which trained us to train others. Call cadence(march soldiers)...weapons training...bayonet,etc...instructing conditioning drills and all physical training...leadership...and many other military examples..after all these years..now almost forgotten.
Being a Drill Sgt during those tense times of war....was a privilege for me considering the reasons listed above. These days...I don't know if a Drill Sgt is handicapped by PC or not. Just remember..that training shouldn't be a piece of cake...or even close to a walk in the park. It should always be rough enough to instill determination and Esprit de Corps in those that will defend for us.
HD

 

[Fletch]

Now, I have never been thru it myself, but I've read the reminiscences of a lot of people who have, and it seems to me that if war itself is something you can only really talk about if you've been there (and to a large extent that's true), then basic training is probably a lot like that too.

The topic comes up every so often on bulletin boards and such, and everybody sort of defers to those who have been there. And in some way I'm sure it's right that that occurs. Too bad we don't have any actual WWII veterans around to talk about it. From what little I've read, the work of making a soldier was a lot different from later eras, yet a lot the same.

 

[zaika]

Now, I have never been thru it myself, but I've read the reminiscences of a lot of people who have, and it seems to me that if war itself is something you can only really talk about if you've been there (and to a large extent that's true), then basic training is probably a lot like that too.

The topic comes up every so often on bulletin boards and such, and everybody sort of defers to those who have been there. And in some way I'm sure it's right that that occurs. Too bad we don't have any actual WWII veterans around to talk about it. From what little I've read, the work of making a soldier was a lot different from later eras, yet a lot the same.

i think you're right fletch. good thing i'm not writing about the actual experience of a WWII soldier. [huh]

 

[Ecuador Jim]

was the vietnam draft anything like the WWII draft in terms of how the lottery worked?

The mechanics of the draft lottery were very similar. During the Vietnam era, you could get deferments, so even if you were "1A", you could defer your involvement until you finished school. This was less true in WWII. They had certain protected industries and people who were being trained in critical industries. Other than that, when you were called up, it was time to go.

When they went to the true lottery system for Vietnam, they also eliminated most of the deferments as well. That's how I ended up joining the Navy; my number was 14, so my student deferment was going to be wiped out, and I would be drafted. As long as you signed up with one of the branches before you received your call-up notice ("Greetings from the President of the United States..."), you were okay.

Haven't seen anything that compares and contrasts the two systems.

 

[Ben]

Thanks for the insight HoosierDaddy. I have always wondered about how well basic training did at preparing people to go into something so intense and what were considered "the required courses" if you will.

 

[hepkitten]

Zaika, I just finished a novel set in WWII and so had to do similar research. I started with Wikipedia (look under Selective Service), then found online articles, including some WWII memoirs, via Google.

Some men enlisted, rather than wait to be drafted, so they could choose which branch of the service to enter. The length of basic training varied during the war, depending on the needs of the military. Also, men who got deferments at the beginning of the war became eligible for the draft later, as the criteria for deferments changed.

About your specific question -- whether a draftee from OR could be sent across the country for basic -- that, I don't know.

 

[tinmanzzz]

NEVER PROMICED YOU A ROSE GARDEN

I think there were several time during Vietnam that the Marines drafted. They only did it when necessary. I recall one month when their recruit quota was 12,000 and they had to draft 4,000. Something along those lines. The whole idea of being a Marine is that you're a volunteer, so they didn't like doing it much.

I remember graduating from Parris Island in Dec.of 67 and the first cycle of "Volunteer" Marines had just started. I know it broke the D.I.'s hearts, as they loved to remind us that we volunteered.lol lol

I may be wrong (if I am, Please don't let my kids know. They are not allowed to know I make mistakes), but my understanding was that the draftees were given a choice to volunteer for the Marines or go to the Army ???
Is there anyone out here that was volunteered into the Marines that knows??

 

[jeep44]

I was in one of the draft lotteries-I think it was 1972. I was in college at the time, and pretty much every guy in our dorm was 19,too. On the lottery day, I remember it being live on the radio, and the sounds of dismay and cursing up and down the halls as the first numbers were drawn, and someone's birthday was picked. I held my breath, and my number was 251. A friend across the hall had a low number, and he was forced to immediately withdraw from college-he ended up being selected for the Marines-I seem to remember him saying at some point in the draft process, they went down the lines of men and counted them off-every fifth man was a Marine. At any rate, he came back for a visit before the term ended in his Class A uniform.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Brings back memories....I was sitting in a room with aprox 20 other guys at Indianapolis,Indiana during one of my required physicals for draft(prob in 1969-70)...when a Marine recruiter and Navy medic entered the room. The Marine said.."I need four volunteers for the Marines!" No one held up their hand. "OK...I need you..you...you...and you!" "You can make a phone call home to Mommy and Daddy...to tell them that you won't be home for a while." The rest of us sat there stunned!...and then greatly relieved. That's how I knew that the Marines were drafting some during certain years of the draft.
HD

 

[scotrace]

thank you for the info so far, fellas! you wouldn't happen to have any book suggestions or anything, would you?

I have the perfect book for you.

Finding Your Father's War.

There is a whole big section on exactly what happened to the average guy in each branch of the service from the time he became eligible for draft until he was discharged and the benefits he may have received. It lays out boot camp experience, pay scales, how and where a man might have been posted, etc. An excellent book.