Black Suit

[Dinerman]

excellent, mike.

 

[mike]

Often when I wear a black suit, people think it's midnight blue. go figure [huh]

And on the subject, I was looking to pick some folks' brains. I have 2 different very interesting black jackets; one a 1933 dated Belgium-made single breasted peak lapel with a great nipped waist cut to it and very thick nice material, and the second a double breasted jacket that is belted and pleated back. What colors and or patterns could go well with these? I don't want it to look like a kid in the 30's trying to throw together a haphazard version of morning dress or something... I have a pair of perhaps 40's-era gray tweed trousers that have a black weave that -somewhat- resembles a stripe, and this just looks like perhaps a grotesque on evening dress. I don't want to do that, I just want to have a somewhat casual and/or classy look going [huh] thoughts?!

And I realize this begs the question - how's about some pictures bunky?! well, ok I promise very soon. I got a crappy camera but my roommate just bought a brand new one. Soooo mighty soon, I swears it.

 

[Senator Jack]

Here we go again. More square advice on the FL. If you don't live black, then don't buy black. That's all there is to it. Personally, I never feel right in brown shoes. They just aren't me. But I wouldn't have the audacity to advise anyone not to wear brown shoes.

Regards,

Jack

 

[David V]

Ain't square advice Jack, it's good styling advice.Take it or leave it but don't miss judge it.

Black suits are for the rubes. Pair em with your best work boots and head to town for the big dance.

 

[MrBern]

I agree! Is this glaringly no good?!

Youre right Mike, that photo easily looks like Midnite Blue, not black.

 

[Senator Jack]

Black suits are for the rubes. Pair em with your best work boots and head to town for the big dance.

????!!!!!????? Wow, I guess that's like the mohawk degenerating into the faux hawk.

 

[mike]

????!!!!!????? Wow, I guess that's like the mohawk degenerating into the faux hawk.

Actually I think these days black is mighty hip. Which puts a person at a crossroads. Do you wear brown to stick it to the man and rebel against the status quo sheep or do you consciously make an effort to remain unchanged by outside forces. Hard to say. Either answer works in my opinion.

 

[MrBern]

cornfields

Ain't square advice Jack, it's good styling advice.Take it or leave it but don't miss judge it.

Black suits are for the rubes. Pair em with your best work boots and head to town for the big dance.

As in an earlier post, Black suits are generally chic in NYC & LA. Perhaps they dont play as elegantly in the midwest or northwest. There is something to be said for regional trends. Just like seersucker being more prevalent in the South.

But if it doesnt suit your personal style, why bother?

 

[Matt Deckard]

That cover looks pretty slick!

Black works when you want it to work. If it doesn't work for you then you shouldn't wear it. What else can I say?!? Same goes for hats.

 

[Max Flash]

Here we go again. More square advice on the FL. If you don't live black, then don't buy black. That's all there is to it. Personally, I never feel right in brown shoes. They just aren't me. But I wouldn't have the audacity to advise anyone not to wear brown shoes.

Regards,

Jack

It's not about audacity, Jack. We were invited to give our advice and thoughts on black suits and that's what we have done. If the poster didn't want the advice, he wouldn't have asked the question.

 

[MrBern]

BTW, JFK in a black suit...

 

[BinkieBaumont]

I've made my decission,it is final........... I will be buying the black single breasted suit, thanks to the postings, by you Gents, and a look at some of the Fall 2009 fashion previews it seems "Black is the new Black!"

 

[Senator Jack]

It's not about audacity, Jack. We were invited to give our advice and thoughts on black suits and that's what we have done. If the poster didn't want the advice, he wouldn't have asked the question.

The black suit is an old argument here. Members wonders what killed the suit in general - grey, blue, green, whatever - failing to understand that, for very good reason, to the public it is the epitome of conformity. By advising men to conform, telling them 'grey and blue is only acceptable for work' and such nonsense, all we're doing here is taking hammer to coffin nails. As old hands, we should be encouraging newcomers to experiment with the suit, to see what's best for them, and not hand down tired rules of business that no one cares about any more anyway.

Besides that, let's face it, dressing in vintage clothes, despite its popularity here, is (and should remain) an expression of individuality. It takes great courage to walk around in a 1920s derby, doesn't it? So why should that individuality be stifled when it comes to color selection? Yes, everyone is going to make some mistakes - a man will buy a suit and come six months later hate it (and after a quarter century of collecting vintage, I still do that) - but that's how one eventually finds what works for him and what doesn't.

Regards,

Jack

 

[Max Flash]

The black suit is an old argument here. Members wonders what killed the suit in general - grey, blue, green, whatever - failing to understand that, for very good reason, to the public it is the epitome of conformity. By advising men to conform, telling them 'grey and blue is only acceptable for work' and such nonsense, all we're doing here is taking hammer to coffin nails. As old hands, we should be encouraging newcomers to experiment with the suit, to see what's best for them, and not hand down tired rules of business that no one cares about any more anyway.

Besides that, let's face it, dressing in vintage clothes, despite its popularity here, is (and should remain) an expression of individuality. It takes great courage to walk around in a 1920s derby, doesn't it? So why should that individuality be stifled when it comes to color selection? Yes, everyone is going to make some mistakes - a man will buy a suit and come six months later hate it (and after a quarter century of collecting vintage, I still do that) - but that's how one eventually finds what works for him and what doesn't.

Regards,

Jack

Jack

I can't tell whether this is a personal attack on me or on certain views expressed within the forum generally. However, your tone comes across as being as pompous as the "nonsense" you are railing against.

For my part, I argued against the black suit on the basis, not of conformity to so-called 'rules' relating to grey and blue suits for business purposes, but regarding the versatility of charcoal without the sombre-ness of black or the risk of black wool going shiny through wear, as it has a tendency to do faster than other wools (at least noticeably). Where I did mention the professions, it was to say that this was a view I had heard expressed elsewhere, not to pass those views off as my own.

A person may wear a black suit in any situation which calls for a lounge suit, and will doubtless not be criticised for it. However, it is and will continue to be my belief that a black suit will never look as classic, clean and appropriate as a charcoal suit, given the choice. This is, for the most part, for aesthetic reasons rather than any adherence to any 'rule' which I may claim to invoke about appropriate standards of dress. It is because in my experience, black suits tend to look cheaper (even if they may not be in reality) and do not wear as well as dark grey counterparts, as well as speaking to me of uniform (in the sense of the wearer being told what to wear rather than choosing for himself) or lack of imagination, which weakens the impression of individuality on the part of the wearer.

You may think all of the above to be an unfair or unfounded view, or not encouraging new members to experiment. I don't really care though - the poster asked for advice and I gave the advice that I had to offer. In the end, the poster preferred the advice of others and followed it, and I wish him well with that choice. However, do not presume that your advice is better than anyone else's or that you have some right to dictate what individuals should be allowed to express on this board. I have never presumed to tell anyone else that they are wrong and I am right, and neither should you. To do so is to seek to stifle the individuality that you take pains in your post to protect.

 

[Senator Jack]

My view isn't a personal attack on anyone, Max, it's simply questioning the rules that are, as you noted, passed around the internet so often they're ultimately taken as gospel. To put this in perspective, I abhor that 'black suit isn't classic' line just as much as an avid hat enthusiasts abhors hearing 'JFK killed the hat.' It just isn't true and it's kind of grating to hear it repeated ad nauseum. If the black suit isn't classic, why was it de rigueur for bankers till the 1930s? I think the problem here is the modern black suit from Hugo Boss, Armani, etc., which, I agree, is atrocious. The vintage tone on tones and mohairs, however, kick a** from here to Honk Kong, so my suggestion would be, if you want to go black, hunt one of those down.

Look, we've all seen guys rock suits and texture/color combinations that you wouldn't think anyone could pull off and they do. It's right for their physique, face, demeanor, gait. It's them and it becomes they're personal style, and I think that's what most guys here are after. But that's only going to come through experimentation and not from following ancient Brooks Brother rules.


Kind regards,

Jack

 

[Max Flash]

My view isn't a personal attack on anyone, Max, it's simply questioning the rules that are, as you noted, passed around the internet so often they're ultimately taken as gospel. To put this in perspective, I abhor that 'black suit isn't classic' line just as much as an avid hat enthusiasts abhors hearing 'JFK killed the hat.' It just isn't true and it's kind of grating to hear it repeated ad nauseum. If the black suit isn't classic, why was it de rigueur for bankers till the 1930s? I think the problem here is the modern black suit from Hugo Boss, Armani, etc., which, I agree, is atrocious. The vintage tone on tones and mohairs, however, kick a** from here to Honk Kong, so my suggestion would be, if you want to go black, hunt one of those down.

Look, we've all seen guys rock suits and texture/color combinations that you wouldn't think anyone could pull off and they do. It's right for their physique, face, demeanor, gait. It's them and it becomes they're personal style, and I think that's what most guys here are after. But that's only going to come through experimentation and not from following ancient Brooks Brother rules.


Kind regards,

Jack

I would never take any rules from Brooks Brothers which, as I'm sure you know, are a fairly new phenomenon in the UK. However, I do see many, many suits in every day life and I know what I think looks good and what doesn't.

Whilst this forum has a Golden Era bent, what was worn in the 1930s and 40s is not the be all and end all for everybody on this forum, and certainly not for me. I strive to dress appropriately (which has nothing to do with so-called 'rules') and in a classic style, but am not trying to ape the fashions of a particular era. Therefore, when I give advice, I give it impartially as to whether it recreates the look of a bygone time. Just because black jackets and striped trousers were worn by bankers in the 1930s does not mean it is appropriate today.

Without any indication of what look the original poster seeks to achieve, or indeed who recommended the purchase of a black suit (possibly an Armani or Hugo Boss salesman, for all we know), the advice must be impartial and so to provide any meaningful direction, one cannot simply resort to saying "go for whatever you can pull off".

I fear we are going to continue to go round in circles on this debate, because we are really at loggerheads. You seem to think that I am adhering to some arcane rules and I am attempting (obviously unsuccessfully) to show that my advice is based on personal preference, and not on the basis of any such rules. In signing off, I would stress that the success of fora such as the Lounge is due in part to the ability of all to express their views and give advice without someone attempting to shout them down simply because they have an opposing view. This will simply drive old and new members alike away.

 

[Senator Jack]

Whilst this forum has a Golden Era bent, what was worn in the 1930s and 40s is not the be all and end all for everybody on this forum, and certainly not for me.

Okay, this explains why we're at sixes and sevens. While I'm not the purist, and I encourage experimentation and mixing old with new, since the FL is, by definition, a forum that concerns itself with the Golden Era, we tend to presume (and I write this without any sarcasm intended) that advice is usually sought with regards to the style of the era. Bankers wore black till the 30s and some probably as far as the war. (Isn't old man Potter's suit black?). As far as a vintage aesthetic, it's correct. What people think of it today...Well, I think if one's wearing a 1930's suit and tie to work right now, he's really not caring too much what everyone else is thinking of him anyway.

Again, I don't write this to single out any one member, and I apologize if it appears that I have.

Kind regards,

Jack

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Max has a point: black (and navy blue!) suits tend to get shiny over time. However, this has much to do with the way that they're handled and spruced up. Years ago, suits were often pressed with an iron rather than steamed -- and this was often done at home. Years of pressing tend to put a shine on suit fabrics. That said, lots of sitting also puts a shine on a trouser seat and upper legs.


The solution? Don't have your black and navy blue suits pressed with an iron. Don't remain seated all day when wearing them. (As you can imagine, people who work in stores, in casinos and in restaurants don't have this problem. Neither do secret service agents.)


Back in the day, suits came with two pairs of trousers; they took twice as long to become shiny!


.

 

[Senator Jack]

True, and another caveat to my post above: mohair becomes brittle after repeated cleaning. Yet, if a guy's going to start buying vintage and then worry about when it's going to fall apart, it might not be the best choice of wardrobe for him. As we all know, vintage does fall apart. We've all had silk shatter, linings fall apart after one wear, fifty year old stains appear after the first cleaning. That all comes part and parcel with the obsession.

And I'm glad Marc's here for this one, because he's got that picture of himself in a salmon 1930s that supports my claim that some guys can rock a look that few others can. Please post that if you can dig it up, Marc.


Regards,

Jack

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I'll look for it, Jack. Thanks!

One more thing: suit colors, patterns and fabrics rise and fall (and rise again) in popularity. Black was the suit color in the 1800s. Blue serge ruled in the early 1900s. The 'teens and '20s gave rise to a dizzying variety of patterned wools. Black became popular again --and not just for Sunday suits-- in the Depression. The '40s and '50s saw black gabardine (and even silk) come to dominate a small but very cool market: jazzbo fashion. The '60s re-injected black suits into the mainstream. "The Blues Brothers" channeled the '60s and revived black suits in the '80s. Then, in the early '90s, Calvin Klein put a black double-breasted suit on JFK, Jr. (for the inauguration of his political magazine, George) and city folks went ga-ga.


I like black suits, but not in all fabrics and silhouettes, and not on all men. I reckon that Jack feels the same way.

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