BK Liberty Hide Questions

[thekiyote]

I have been emailing with Andy of late as I am buying a jacket from him (my 3rd). As I said earlier he has been totally reasonable and professional with me and a pleasure to do business with.
I wonder if he feels attacked by some folks and he is just fighting back in the only way he knows?

Occam's razor says it's probably just one guy a bit off his rocker, but it is theoretically possible that, if I knew your email address, I could send you an email that looks like it came from sales@billkelsomfg.com.

If I had a beef against you and/or the company, I could send you a fake email insulting you, and an email from you to the company insulting them. If you both didn't know about this man in the middle attack, you would just assume the other person is lying to smear the other.

I do tend to run a bit on the paranoid side, though. My background is InfoSec.

 

[Monitor]

Generally, I'm okay with ignoring a lot of asshole behavior, as long as they produce a good product, but they crossed the line from asshole into straight up bigotry, in which case, I don't care how good they are.

Signed. Exactly that. Before, I didn't care. Now I do.

 

[Sloan1874]

The weird thing about BK, and having been on the receiving end of Andy’s emails before Super’s one sounds legit, is that it’s a bit like having a mental ex: after a while of not seeing them, you forget about all the screaming fits, unreasonable behaviour etc, and you get a little bit rose-tinted about the relationship. Then you run into them and within a few short minutes you’re reminded comprehensively exactly how awful and toxic that person was.

 

[ton312]

I might buy the spoof email theory were it not for BK's FB page. To this day it includes attacks against SF and attempts at self promotion via slander towards others...
Although one member here trolled said post with surgical precision.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Christ almighty... Wh... How...

I guess this is sort of out of context but it still doesn't change the fact that the author of this seriously needs professional help. And a lot of it.

But I wonder now, what's that about TB and Horween?

Not sure you can really 'help' a bigot. People will think what they want to think and the facts or morality don't generally make a dint in strongly held prejudice. '

 

[Seb Lucas]

I have been emailing with Andy of late as I am buying a jacket from him (my 3rd). As I said earlier he has been totally reasonable and professional with me and a pleasure to do business with.
I wonder if he feels attacked by some folks and he is just fighting back in the only way he knows?

Well Mark, it could also be that like so many other stentorian bigots you don't see that side of them unless you raise an uncomfortable subject. But the real question is once you know how they think can you really return to business as usual?

 

[navetsea]

what, you guys like wartime jacket style and don't like wartime propaganda style?

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Platon

'Platon'...That's him. Claimed to be a Chicago BK sponser..Andy's partner..or whatever. We battled on VLJ for months when he first came on acting as just one of the guys, but over-plugging BK every chance he got. Finally he reluctantly announced who he really was. He was so Andy-like weird and arrogant that management banned him .

 

[Superfluous]

But the real question is once you know how they think can you really return to business as usual?

Exactly. At some point, the outrageous and reprehensible conduct renders the quality of the product irrelevant. I would not purchase a stellar jacket from David Duke and, for similar reasons, I would not purchase a jacket from BK.

 

[ProteinNerd]

That is so weird.

Question, has anybody tried emailing sales@billkelsomfg.com and see if they respond with the same tone as the cold harassing emails? I just ask, because it's pretty trivial to fake a from email address, though in that case, it would be an oddly specific troll...

I emailed and asked for the report they mentioned on the facebook post. He got back to me quickly with the requested file and asked that I don't post it online, which I will honour. If you want to see it, just email him I guess.

 

[Xopher]

My personal theory is that Thedi started the BK line and I bet Andy worked for him. I bet Andy was in the process of buying the BK line from Thedi which could explain the 'pending big announcement' and with the company now his the euro to gbp switch came to recover costs of buying the business. Maybe something went wrong in the deal, hence why Thedi and BK dont acknowledge eachother. Thats my guess anyway.

 

[Dickie Teenie]

Theodoros has said there's nothing to the rumors. Nothing and I mean nothing has ever given me any reason to doubt that gentleman.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Huh?....I don't remember thinking anything like that after BK appeared on the scene and I always thought that the big announcement somehow probably involved Alexander Leathers ( by whatever name they were using then ). I also thought that BK mentioned that their new partner or associates were British.

 

[Mark]

Well Mark, it could also be that like so many other stentorian bigots you don't see that side of them unless you raise an uncomfortable subject. But the real question is once you know how they think can you really return to business as usual?

Guess we all have the potential to be unpleasant if the right buttons are pushed. As I said I have had a good relationship with BK and as long as that continues I will be a potential customer. Think some folks on here need to chill a little!

 

[Seb Lucas]

Unpleasant? That's a good one.

 

[Monitor]

Guess we all have the potential to be unpleasant if the right buttons are pushed. As I said I have had a good relationship with BK and as long as that continues I will be a potential customer. Think some folks on here need to chill a little!

Mark, but what if you were at the receiving end of their bigotry? Would that also be simply merely unpleasant or would it make a difference? Please do understand that with this sort of people, there are no buttons that need to be pushed. It's just the way their socipathic brains are wired and one day you too could be getting harassed like SF for a reason incomprehensible to you. That's what makes bad people bad.

 

[dannyk]

Being a crank or unpleasant is one thing personally attacking some guy @Superfluous not that he’s just some guy on here but he’s not another maker or some professional jacket reviewer who gets paid to write bad pieces about them is another. And to throw in attacks about someone’s sexuality which isn’t even true, but even if it were who cares? Yeah that’s another deal.

 

[Superfluous]

 

[Sloan1874]

It is amazing to think that, after all these years, Andy still hasn't learned a lesson that how he conducts himself has a bearing on how people perceive his company. No matter how pleasant a business owner is in emails to me, if I hear or see them abusing somebody in a public forum, it makes me wonder how reliable they are and at what point the friendly facade will collapse.

 

[thekiyote]

It's interesting where the line is. I read the Lost Worlds FAQ, and I know I am probably the antithesis of who this guy pictures who he sells to. As an early-30s IT guy who lives in a big city and doesn't even own a car, let alone a motorcycle, it got a lot of eye rolls. It is all about the style for me. While I love authenticity, I have nothing against lambskin, so I am probably his interior decorator of the soul.

But it's not enough for me to not buy from him. While I'm from the generation and culture that is comfortable enough with its own masculinity that we don't need to constantly justify it, I recognize that a lot of people aren't, and he makes a really good jacket. I am not going to write him off because I think he has some archaic view of what it takes to be a man.

However, where Bill Kelso Mfg crosses the line, for me, is that that attitude is so strong, it's toxic. He's not just pumping up his own masculine pride, which I can ignore, but he's attacking other people, and that's enough for me to permanently write him off. That interfering with other people is the difference between an a**hole and a bigot.