Best bowler in London?

[londonboy]

What is the best available bowler hat in London? Is it Lock's, which sells at an incredible premium? Who makes these? I read from an old Matt Deckard post that these have a furry finish, which appeals to me.

 

[londonboy]

Mind if I bump this? I saw old posts from Matt Deckard saying that Lock's bowlers are the best of the best. I was wondering if they're better than even vintage ones. I was also wondering if they are in fact no longer made in England.

 

[LocktownDog]

I really like the look of them. However, I've never handled one, so cannot say whether or not the quality is good. Sorry.

Richard

 

[Will]

In my experience Lock is wildly over-priced compared to the best American hatmakers, and their felts in particular are second-rate.

You'll be better off to contact Art Fawcett in Oregon. VS Custom Hats.

 

[Delthayre]

But for an umbrella...

You might find it beneficial to read this thread that I began on a related subject several months ago. If you can wrangle Topper's attention, he is a good consultant on these matters.

He's a courteous and helpful businessman too.

I certainly am happy with the Christy's Devon Bowler that I bought from him, or rather my friend for whom I bought it is. My knowledge of what constitutes a good bowler is limited, but the Christy's seems at least very attractive, sharp, and comfortable.

You'll be better off to contact Art Fawcette in Oregon. VS Custom Hats.

Unfortunately I don't think that Mister Fawcett makes bowlers. I can recall reading that he wasn't able to manufacture bowlers and top hats, only fedoras and homburgs, but it is not impossible that the facts have since changed.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I've heard good things about Lock & Co. As you'll know, hatters (or what can reasonably be described as such) are sadly a thing of the past in the UK. The soft hats that Lock & Co. offer are the same garbage quality put out by everyone else currently.

Since in the bowler the felt is generally stiffened to hell, i think this is one stye that is still well made/hard to get badly wrong. Check out Bates (21A Jermyn St.) and Herbert Johnson (54 St. James's St.) as other options.

bk

 

[londonboy]

In my experience Lock is wildly over-priced compared to the best American hatmakers, and their felts in particular are second-rate.

This is so true and apparent immediately from the first time you hold one of their fedoras, but I specifically want to discuss bowler hats. Lock still seems to carry a good stiff bowler with the twist of slightly furrier texture, so I am not sure if it may be worth it to still buy from them. I wonder if this is a better deal when one throws in the royal warrant marks and creator's bragging rights, as opposed to buying a Herbert Johnson Poet because Indiana Jones amuses you.

Might I infer that buying a Lock, Christy's or Olney bowler is still better or comparable to buying a vintage bowler from eBay? Topper declined to comment on Lock and Bates in old posts, but he had good things to say about Christy's and Olney. However, Matt Deckard said that Christy's bowlers are the mid level, and Lock is top tier for him and that man's photos alone make me want to have a bowler.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I never said they were the best of the best though they are the original producer of such hats according to their records.
Now are they better than vintage?

No... the reason I say this is because the crowns appear to be lower than their vintage counterparts and the edge isn't curled in with the sharp turn like those made in decades past.

 

[londonboy]

No... the reason I say this is because the crowns appear to be lower than their vintage counterparts and the edge isn't curled in with the sharp turn like those made in decades past.

I see. May I just ask how to spot a sharp curl? My untrained eye doesn't know what to look for, and I thought the Lock brim curled up when I took a look at the shop. Should you look for an extra curl of the brim edge itself?

For comparison:

Modern Lock bowler:

Modern Bates bowler:

Modern Christys' Devon:

http://www.christys-hats.com/viewbowlerhats.php

Modern Olney bowler:

Old bowler photo posted by Matt:

Another old photo:

Charlie Chaplin's hat:

And of course:

 

[MK]

.

The angles are too different to see much.

As for Herbert Johnson...I wouldn't bother. Since Richard Swales has left the company they are just a mere retailer of hats.

The original Lock bowlers could be stood on without losing their shape.

 

[londonboy]

In all honesty, when I visited Herbert Johnson, the salesman referred me to Lock on my way out. I was pleased to learn that Lock's Mr. Gill is still making caps for them after three decades, but that does not extend to hats.

I doubt I will find a Lock bowler you can stand on these days, but one can wish. I believe Topper said these have to be specially made now, at a cost of at least $800.

By the way, what hats do you think the princes are wearing? These are certainly new hats with lower brims right?

 

[Ada Veen]

This is probably an idiot question, but I have a Bowler hat by "Dunn & co." of Piccadilly Circus, London. It seems pretty cheap to me, but I was wondering if anyone had any info on the company? I did a search and couldn't find any prior posts. I really have no clue about it (I blame my gender for this!). Any info much appreciated. In fact, if anyone wants the hat and has a small head they could probably have it. There's very little cause for a lady to wear a bowler if she doesn't work in a Weimar cabaret.

 

[Dinerman]

Not exactly what Matt was talking about, but just something that I don't like about the looks of modern ones with regards to the brims-

Do you see how tight the curls in the front and back of the bowlers in the vintage pictures are? How it's so tight it's almost flat, and then it has a wide curl on the sides?

On the newer ones, it is closer to a homburg in the brim, where it has a fairly consistent curl all the way around.

See the difference between the photo of the Lock and the photo of Chaplin's?

 

[londonboy]

I think I understand what you're saying. The old hats are more trough shaped, or like a widened \_/. The new hats do not have a horizontal brim in front, but have a gentle curve, like a widened u. This is most readily seen comparing the photo of Steed and the new photo of the princes? Was this true of all old bowlers, or particular brands?

Wasn't Dunn the equivalent of J. Crew a hundred years ago? Decent quality, but not the best?

 

[Dinerman]

It's easier to show what I mean with a photo. The hat in the photo is trashed, but it's good for demonstration, and it was easy to get to.

Top view:
In the front and back of the hat, the brim is curled down to a small diameter , smaller than the size of a pencil, and almost flat. On the sides, the brim has a wide , looser curl. This gives the brim shape, which when viewed from the top has a longer oval than the crown.

In the front picture- See how this gives the brim that "u" shaped curve through the flanging of the brim, through the curl of the edge, while the curl on the newer ones have a more relaxed curl throughout, never reaching the flatness in the front or back.

I guess it's just a different look, kind of like how fedoras have changed so drastically since the '20s, but I much prefer the old style.

 

[Ada Veen]

Mine is similar to the one above, with the big curls on the side and flatter at the front and back.

 

[M Tatterscratch]

My derby is a very well-preserved old Mallory, which has nothing to do with London, I know. Not quite as Bat Masterson as I'd like, but it's a shapely all-purpose model and, from what little I know, seems well-made.

That difference to the edge of the hat is what drives me crazy about new bowlers and homburgs I've handled - They look and feel like someone's given them a collagen injection. I've never felt an old bowler with a flabby or fat lip.

I see Dunn hats all over the place, but I don't know anything about their reputation. There must be a Dunn post somewhere around here, but these search tools leave something to be desired...

T.

 

[Dinerman]

I also love the way vintage derbies made themselves look different. When's the last time you ran across a modern production derby with a pleated band?
It was done back in the day.

 

[M Tatterscratch]

I also love the way vintage derbies made themselves look different.

Funny how people think of men in derbies looking like worker ants, everyone the same - There was an old photograph of a strike line in an ad for a Chicago historical museum that I looked at every morning on the way to the agency, and pretty much every chap in it was wearing a bowler. Moreover, every one of them looked absolutely individual - Tall crowns, low ones, domed, flatter, curled brims, dipped... Perhaps chaps who could afford the latest fashions strove for homogeneity, whereas working-class fellows were a hotchpotch?

 

[Matt Deckard]

Problem isn't with the maker of the bowler it's with the maker of the ribbon. Because of the synthetic materials used to make the ribbon the ribbon tends to melt when ironed and turned inward.

Shorter crowns, wider brims, they always differed. Top is UK bottom is US.

Many of the modern bowlers are bound much less tightly.
The old Lock

The old Dobbs

The old lock bowlers were shellacked enough to keep their shape in many conditions though in later years lighter versions were made. I have a couple that are very thing yet look the same as the heavier models. No longer a game keeper hat it became a fashionable staple.

Even see some with ventilation in them.