Berets, Anyone?

[donnc]

I was gonna get a larger one but glad I didn't, this one is large enough. A good 12 inches.

Mine arrived a day or two before, since it didn't have far to go. Looks like you manage pretty well with it - it's an unusual hat, isn't obvious how to wear it in a natural way. I'm not sure I have it figured out.

I wore it this weekend, glad I did when it started raining a little as it's a good rain hat. When I got to the pet store and went to pay for the cat food, the guy (owner?) with whom I am slightly acquainted says

"What kind of a hat is that?"

"It's a Spanish Basque beret."

"Oh ... Are you Basque?"

"No, never even been to Spain."

"Oh ... So, how did you get into that?"

"This guy in Ballard sells them, mail order."

"Huh, that's pretty random."

OK, it's not like I was expecting a compliment, anyway! I am pulling it a little to the right and forward, but not all the way, just a little. It comes off different enough from the beret we all know (as the man said, "What kind of a hat is that?") that it might make sense to use their name for it - boína, or txapela - rather than even call it a beret. (I imagine txapela is pronounced with a "ch" and just means "hat" - cf. French chapeau, likewise Portuguese.)

 

[Big_e]

Even different spanish speaking countries will have a different name for the same object. I'm from Peru and a beret or a cloth cap would just be called "gorro". That's a general term which simply means "cover".
I usually just plop my beret on my head, pat it down and let it lean where it will.
Ernest

 

[Daan]

Boina Vasca and Txapela

make sense to use their name for it - boína, or txapela - rather than even call it a beret. (I imagine txapela is pronounced with a "ch" and just means "hat" - cf. French chapeau, likewise Portuguese.)

Boina translates as beret (boina Vasca = Basque beret), where as the word txapela (pronunciation: http://www.forvo.com/word/txapela_buruan_eta_ibili_munduan!/) means hat (or head-cover), although generally referred to the XL diameter berets (15" and 16"). The txapala is often used as a price in various competitions (cycling, pelote, chess, etc (often with the name of the event embroidered on the top of the txapela).

 

[Chinaski]

I just thought I'd add that, Daan, your postings have generally been excellent! I seem to always learn something when I check into this thread. Thanks :eusa_clap

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

I don't know if this is of interest,

but my grandfather lived for a period of his life in Paris (in the '20s-'30s of the past century...)

well, he wore a beret...
but not only he wore it; he (as one of his friends taught him to do) used to walk with the beret in his hand, while hiding a gun inside the beret...

you know, petty crimes and stuff. Real story.

Ciao!

PS
I forgot to add that, out of familiar tradition, my father wore a beret when he was young, so I bought a beret myself... a very inexpensive italian brand, not very large as ny head is fairly short and I'm not that tall myself, I'd rather avoid to look like a mushroom

Anyway, I've recently started to notice more people (even younger ones) wearing berets, both "military" and "basque";
the town in which I currently live is quite attentive to elegance and style.

 

[AlterEgo]

...my grandfather lived for a period of his life in Paris (in the '20s-'30s of the past century...)

well, he wore a beret...
but not only he wore it; he (as one of his friends taught him to do) used to walk with the beret in his hand, while hiding a gun inside the beret...

you know, petty crimes and stuff. Real story...

I pack a piece--I have a handgun-carry permit--but never thought about concealing it within a beret held in the hand.

With that in mind, perhaps I SHOULD consider one of those 15- or 16-inch txapelas: It could easily accomodate my hogleg 8 1/2-inch barrel S & W 44 magnum with enough room left over for a couple speed loaders tucked under the brim!

Yes, "a man's gotta know his limitations," but you've "gone ahead, made my day."

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

I pack a piece--I have a handgun-carry permit--but never thought about concealing it within a beret held in the hand.

With that in mind, perhaps I SHOULD consider one of those 15- or 16-inch txapelas: It could easily accomodate my hogleg 8 1/2-inch barrel S & W 44 magnum with enough room left over for a couple speed loaders tucked under the brim!

Yes, "a man's gotta know his limitations," but you've "gone ahead, made my day."

Actually a gun would never fit inside my own beret, so probably my grandfather's beret basque was quite large (or his gun quite small, who knows);
as for the concealing, I assume berets were such a common sight in Paris in the '20s that nobody would have noticed anything strange if you simply walked while holding your beret for some reason.

Ciao!

 

[Harp]

I pack a piece--I have a handgun-carry permit--but never thought about concealing it within a beret held in the hand.

With that in mind, perhaps I SHOULD consider one of those 15- or 16-inch txapelas: It could easily accomodate my hogleg 8 1/2-inch barrel S & W 44 magnum with enough room left over for a couple speed loaders tucked under the brim!

stick on an Idaho potato-Mick spud silencer for added cover.

 

[Speedbird]

British military Berets and sidehats/garrison hats

Well, this has been a relatively entertaining thread to read through from the begining for a newcomer to the Fedora Lounge.

The discussion and photos on classic Basque, Spanish, French etc civilian berets has been informative and hugely entertaining!

I just wanted to add some small contribution to the thread ... over the years on and off I have worn a number of berets in uniform. The British military beret is relatively young historically but has become a firm fixture of identity and esprit de corps with different services, arms and regiments passionately coveting their own particular take on the thing. The whole army has been defined by it: for instance the notion that British soldiers are better at low intensity warfare because they patrol in berets rather than Kevlar as soon as practical: Edward alluded to the Northern Ireland experience and yes, quite: perhaps a para shedding his combat helmet in favour of his maroon beret is only marginally less threatening than before and perhaps leaving his weapon at home would work better - but such is the accepted wisdom that Brits in berets are good at peacekeeping! Personally, I think British Paras are more scary in their berets - it's their colours and you know who is coming at you! And if it is maroon and sporting shiny wings, it is definitely better to run away!

Anyway, back to British military berets. Styles and diameters have changed slightly over the years with earlier ones bigger than later. Certain colours have become entrenched over the years in their associations with particular regiments and corps. I have noticed lately some shifting in that direction with the adoption of colours previously associated with the sexier end of the UK armed forces by the less sexy ... but a lot of that has to do with the amalgamation of regiments and corps through what was known as 'Options for Change' in the 1990's and the more recent second round of defence cuts in the last decade, resulting in more mergers of historic regiments. An example would be the Royal Anglian's and Duke of Lancaster's and others who now wear a beret the same colour as that previously associated with Household Division Regiments.

On top of this, the British soldier has a certain way to wear his beret to avoid the snoopy, mushroom or other decidedly unflattering look - and in any given regiment the old sweats will have a distinctive 'signature' style of wearing the beret which involves arcane rituals of hot and cold water and steam to achieve. New recruits are easily spotted and work hard to achieve the old hand look .... it's a rite of passage!

With regard to Side Hats, similiar to the US Garrison Cap, they are beginning to make a resurgence in the British Army. FL member Edward mentioned he thought they might have become extinct in the British military and with good reason; but a by-product of all the mergers of different regiments in the cost cutting regime has meant that nearly every regiment still in existence now has a bewildering array of regimental customs, honours and traditions to maintain and reference to honour their lineage. For example, the various Scottish regiments including the famous Black Watch have been merged into one Royal Regiment of Scotland with 5 battalions each with their own distinct ancestry. Likewise,the various light infantry regiments have been merged into the single largest British Army regiment - The Rifles (which is both sensible - as light infantry are the most in demand type of soldier there is currently - and yet odd as the heritage of the light infantry is as skirmishers out in front aka Sharpe and the Ox and Bucks @ Pegasus Bridge -so by definition are not the majority line infantry). This has led to sidehats becoming more and more back on the essential kit list.

Anyway, this is rambling - but the point is in order to maintain traditions and battle honours representing the lineage of the merged regiments, the traditional side hats have been resurrected - e.g. officers of The Rifles are now encourage by their CO (encouraged = mandated) to wear the rifle green side hat when Duty Officer in barracks for example..... side hats had almost died out because officers are still expected to purchase quite a lot of their uniform; field equipment and battledress uniform excepted - and until the recent changes, some items had become so esoteric they just gradually disappeared - but now they are back to allow merged regiments keep their original identities and traditions! You can only imagine what the average officers regimental diary and consequent mess bill might now look like!

Oh dear .. this might be too long and waffly - I blame the vin rouge! I hope there is something of interest in this post!

 

[Daan]

More on Pebeo

Following the previous posts on Pebeo berets, here a picture with a variety of Pebeo labels (all made by Blancq-Olibet).

 

[EvantheDiplomat]

Berets in Argentina

Some varieties of Argentine gauchos wear berets, reflecting their Basque heritage. Now I just have to figure out how to post a picture showing them.

http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac333/Penthousepuzzyeater/GauchoBerets2.jpg

 

[Dean]

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How to wear your beret in the British Army. It used to be dunked in cold water then left to dry on your noggin. Regimental badge over left eye.

 

[Dean]

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How not to wear your beret in the British Army. Used to be refered to a 'water tank'. This is how movie makers think berets should look on squaddies.

 

[Dean]

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Members of the British Army who can wear thier berets how they like.....

 

[Kreissaege]

I get my berets both from Ron Grear in Seattle and Daan Kalthoff in Wellington.
The former stocks only the heavy "Super Lujo" in all sizes, the latter has a wide selection of different fabric weights and diameters. Since I own lots of different ones, I have made a list stating weight, diameter and feel of the fabric, which I will post here in the next days.
Both are excellent in terms of communication and service.
Payment with paypal is easy and cheap for the buyer and with retail price and postage combined I get a spanish-made beret much cheaper than any european-made newsboy-cap by ordereing from the manufacturer. Buying the wrong shape or size of an Akubra from australia will turn out much more expensive.
With Ron Grear, use his measurements in inches, with Daan Kalthoff take the one in centimeter ( 1" = 2.54cm), because the quoted sizes in inches, as given by the spainish manufacturer, are all over the place.
Its also important to consider that an extended hike in heavy rain can make a beret shrink a bit. My 14.5" beret from Ron Grear lost about 1.5cm in diameter.
As with one-size-fits-all, until now I have had only one beret which came with a "hole" too large for my size 61.0cm head. All other I had to stretch a lot to make them fit. And when I overstretched one, I simply doused the rim with hot water and had it re-shrunk thus.
Considering value-for-money, any beret, ordered by one of these two suppliers, are an excellent choice

 

[Daan]

Considering value-for-money, any beret, ordered by one of these two suppliers, are an excellent choice

Thanks for your friendly words, Kreissaege.
Yes, those sizes (for the outer diameter) of berets are a pain and cause a lot of confusion. The "safest" way is to choose your beret by using the metric system (as all cm's are the same length ), but below I'll give a conversion of the sizes in Continental (or Spanish) Inches vs US Inches and in millimeters (MM).

Some suppliers, even in the US, state the beret diameters in Continental Inches, while others use US" - so if you are buying by mail order, best to check on this.

Beret Diameters Conversion Chart
MM Inch Sp. Inches
221 8,7 9.5
233 9,1 10
244 9,6 10.5
256 10 11
267 10,5 11.5
279 11 12
291 11,5 12.5
302 11,8 13
314 12,4 13.5
326 12,8 14
349 13,7 15
372 14,6 16

Hope this helps

 

[donnc]

Thanks for your friendly words, Kreissaege.
Yes, those sizes (for the outer diameter) of berets are a pain and cause a lot of confusion. The "safest" way is to choose your beret by using the metric system (as all cm's are the same length )

I suppose this is more or less pedantry, but as far as I know all inches are the same length too, 2.54 cm. The unit we're translating as "inch" here is really pulgada, isn't it? For me, it's an erroneous translation, given that it isn't really an inch.

 

[Daan]

Semantics?

I suppose this is more or less pedantry, but as far as I know all inches are the same length too, 2.54 cm. The unit we're translating as "inch" here is really pulgada, isn't it? For me, it's an erroneous translation, given that it isn't really an inch.

Except that both Spanish and some French beret manufacturers list(ed) their berets using the measurement unit: "inches" and, when doing so, they use a unit that equals approx. 2.33 cm - not the unit of 2.54cm that we translate as US Inch. Semantics, maybe, but if you are not aware of this, you'll end up in trouble when ordering your beret.
I don't know what the origin is of using this unit of 2.33 and why it is referred to as inch, but the reality is that you have to deal with it...

 

[Kreissaege]

Here are my measurements, taken directly from the berets I own, when they were new:
Tolosa Tupida
-Cotton 98gr/30cm
-Plato Grande 12" 86gr/30cm very soft, smooth surface

Boinas Elosegui
-Basica 11.5" 96gr/30cm soft, coarse
-Exposicion Tupida 13.5" 118gr/31cm soft, smooth
-Super Lujo 12" 126gr/30cm stiff, smooth
-Super Lujo 13.5" 166gr/34cm
-Super Lujo 14.5" 175gr/37cm

 

[Harp]

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Members of the British Army who can wear thier berets how they like.....

Gurkkhas are badass. Love those guys.
When asked to see the knife, a finger is cut because the blade
must taste blood whenever drawn. None better. :eusa_clap