Ball Turret

[Stearmen]

On the subject of B-17s, I noticed the post on Ball Turrets. Just wondering how many wished they had one as a kid?

 

[Sgt Brown]

Why as a kid? I want one now!

In actuality, what I DO want is a training turret that mounted two 12 ga shotguns for shooting at clay pigeons.

Tom

 

[kiltie]

That episode of Amazing Stories pretty much took care of any desire to crawl in there.

 

[Atticus Finch]

This ball turret is on Sentimental Journey, a "G" model B-17. I took this photo in July. The turret is rolled down so that the hatch is exposed to the outside of the plane. The round window visible behind the flexible hose is actually the bottom of the turret, so in this orientation, the gunner would be on his back.

As I looked into the cramped space, I realized that I wouldn't have had to worry about being assigned to a B-17's B/T position. I couldn't have fit in there butt naked and greased....much less while wearing a flight suit, a heated bunny suit and fleece outergear.

AF

 

[Silver Dollar]

I'm only 5'6" so I was able to get into the one on Texas Raiders pretty easily. I'd love to have one to play in but not to fly in. If the gunner got stuck in there and the plane had to belly land, not good.

 

[Stearmen]

As I looked into the cramped space, I realized that I wouldn't have had to worry about being assigned to a B-17's B/T position. I couldn't have fit in there butt naked and greased....much less while wearing a flight suit, a heated bunny suit and fleece outergear.

AF

I am just shy of 5' 11" and I fit in that exact turret in you photo! Of course, that was 20 years ago and I weighed one or two pounds less and was in jeans and a shirt!

 

[kampkatz]

If the hatch could be opened to the outside, why was there the fear of being stuck in the turret with inoperable landing gear. Couldn't the operator just open it from the inside and bail out?

 

[rumblefish]

If the hatch could be opened to the outside, why was there the fear of being stuck in the turret with inoperable landing gear. Couldn't the operator just open it from the inside and bail out?

I believe because the turret could/would be stuck in a position where it was unable to be opened at all.

 

[Phantomfixer]

Why as a kid? I want one now!

In actuality, what I DO want is a training turret that mounted two 12 ga shotguns for shooting at clay pigeons.

Tom

Don't know about the 12 guage shotguns but...The Dover AFB museum has a top turret assembly on a frame collecting alot of dust in their restoration hanger.

 

[Phantomfixer]

I believe because the turret could/would be stuck in a position where it was unable to be opened at all.

To get out of the turret in flight, the turret has to be rotated so that the guns point down, then the hatch can be opened into the belly of the plane. There is a documented case where the landing gear would not come down and the ball turret gunner was stuck inside during the belly landing. Also the turret could be unbolted and dropped from the plane in flight to prevent damage to the frame of the plane while belly landing.

 

[mrclandestine1]

Turret gunners & the Flying Fortress

My uncle, as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Army Air Corps, taught young men {some teenagers} to fly the B-17 Flying Fortress in San Antonio, Texas in WWII. He still has some difficulties with bad dreams, seeing the faces of boys who never came back. Bombing missions over Hitler's Germany during the early part of WWII only had fighter escorts with limited range, and the Luftwaffe was quick to figure out that they needed to wait until the fighters turned back for England before they swooped down in formations five layers high from above the bombers. Ball turrets were no match for the Messerschmitts, especially since the bombers were lumbering slowly along in a straight line. A good book to read is "Deep Survival" by Laurence Gonzales, his dad fell strapped in his cockpit seat 5 miles when the plane disintegrated, yet he lived to tell about it.

 

[Stearmen]

If the hatch could be opened to the outside, why was there the fear of being stuck in the turret with inoperable landing gear. Couldn't the operator just open it from the inside and bail out?

Most ball turret gunners didn't wear parachutes because there was not enough room. But I talked to some, that wore their chest chute hooked on one side and stowed on the other side, that way flop it over and hook the remaining hook, and out the back!, They would jam from time to time from battle damage, but usually they were able to get out. Andy Rooney does talk about being on a base where a B-17 belly landed with the gunner still down there!

 

[Fletch]

Funny thing - the first bigtails, B-17Es, were fitted with a remote control belly turret and observation bubble. But the AAC preferred the manned version despite the added danger to the occupant if anything malfunctioned. For one thing, looking thru the scope of the remote turret guaranteed motion sickness!

B-17E with remote turret from Pearl Harbor flight 12/7/41. Click to view.

 

[Fletch]

I may have mentioned this but...

Sgt. Bill Carter, of Ames, IA, ball turret gunner with the 358th BS, 303rd BG(H), lived not far from me. (In 1937, his uncle built my house.)

Bill flew in the B-17Gs Swee Pea, Princess Pat, and Sack Time in 1944-'45. Our local historical society has gun-camera film he took on a few runs (unfortunately not online yet, but I've seen it and it's fascinating).

Here is a story of Swee Pea's forced landing in France, before which Bill and another crewman had to clear the bomb load by hand!

Lieut. Joe Gordon (2nd from r top) and crew. Sgt. Bill Carter (l bottom).

 

[Phantomfixer]

Most ball turret gunners didn't wear parachutes because there was not enough room. But I talked to some, that wore their chest chute hooked on one side and stowed on the other side, that way flop it over and hook the remaining hook, and out the back!, They would jam from time to time from battle damage, but usually they were able to get out. Andy Rooney does talk about being on a base where a B-17 belly landed with the gunner still down there!

There was a modified B-8 back parachute to be used by ball turret gunners. I do not know how they modified it. I imagine they took the 28ft canopy and reduced it to leave a smaller pack. Dunno.

 

[Phantomfixer]

Sgt. Bill Carter, of Ames, IA, ball turret gunner with the 358th BS, 303rd BG(H), lived not far from me. (In 1937, his uncle built my house.)

Bill flew in the B-17Gs Swee Pea, Princess Pat, and Sack Time in 1944-'45. Our local historical society has gun-camera film he took on a few runs (unfortunately not online yet, but I've seen it and it's fascinating).

Here is a story of Swee Pea's forced landing in France, before which Bill and another crewman had to clear the bomb load by hand!

Lieut. Joe Gordon (2nd from r top) and crew. Sgt. Bill Carter (l bottom).

Good story with Sweat Pea. Really don't read much like hat in the history books. The spat between pilot and copilot that is.

 

[Ruptured Duck™]

That episode of Amazing Stories pretty much took care of any desire to crawl in there.

Hah....great reference....

 

[Diamondback]

Only way I'd play in the ball is if I had the tools to cut a way out of it and a chute in there with me... just in case. I seem to recall more than one ball gunner going *SQUISH*...

B-29/B-36-style, remote-operated turrets FTW!

 

[green papaya]

I always wanted a army tank or Mercury space capsule

 

[Sgt Brown]

Don't know about the 12 guage shotguns but...The Dover AFB museum has a top turret assembly on a frame collecting alot of dust in their restoration hanger.

Here's the toy I want. Imagine the fun you could have with someone throwing clay pigeons for you while you try to hit them with the electric controlled turret!

Tom