B-1, B-2 and other rare/early jackets

[Dumpster Diver]

AWESOMENESS!!!

 

[MeachamLake]

That's absolutely stunning!

A rare duck indeed!

Indeed, what a superb jacket!

 

[Deacon211]

Just conjecture, but there could be another in between reason that you see so many missing pockets on the B-2.

Rather than being intentionally removed because they interfere with the parachute harness, which I agree with Charles seems unlikely, it could be that the parachute harness tended to tear the pocket off the jacket. Once these things started to come loose and become a nuisance, it would have probably been easier to tear them off than continually repair them. It would also seem to explain what looks to be the holes of pretty inexpert removal.

This reminds me of the shroud line cutter pocket on modern flight suits...a generally useless pocket on one's left thigh.

They were usually fairly robustly sewn on. But, once they started to come loose, it was easier to just remove them.

In fact in the Air Force it was a common O'club game to tear off the offending pocket when one was spotted...and the removal often left those "inexpert" removal holes.

All supposition of course. I guess you'd need to find a inter war pilot and ask him.


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[HPA Rep]

I have a disc with all the photos so ill try to get them onto my tablet somehow. I think the label reads like this -

Winterflying suit type A
Irving Airchute Company
Buffalo
New York.

The collar is asymmetric and the panel seams are flat not rolled.
I understand that Irvin and Irving are the same person, and perhaps there were legal issues with the use of the name. There was a factory in Buffalo.

Thank you for the reply post with photos and label details, John!

You are correct that Irving was the name used in the USA for Irvin, the exact reasons for which I forget (could well have been legal), but one of my best friends knows the story and I shall contact him on this.

Clearly, this is a very, very, very rare jacket, and I believe that is it simply a commercial flying jacket based on the second-version B-3.

The use of an outer leather harkens back to the earlier B-1 & B-2 jackets, and the combination of small hip belts, sleeve zips, and one pocket on the left side share more in common with the second-version B-3 than an RAF Aircrew Jacket.

Do you have photos of the back? The early B-3's had gussets and I'm curious to see how the back was designed.

The snap-down collar fob shares nothing in common with any of the styles we're discussing and its an interesting feature in light of there also being a collar strap with adjustment.

You also mentioned another label in the jacket, which would be interesting to see.

Truly a great item!

 

[HPA Rep]

Just conjecture, but there could be another in between reason that you see so many missing pockets on the B-2.

Rather than being intentionally removed because they interfere with the parachute harness, which I agree with Charles seems unlikely, it could be that the parachute harness tended to tear the pocket off the jacket. Once these things started to come loose and become a nuisance, it would have probably been easier to tear them off than continually repair them. It would also seem to explain what looks to be the holes of pretty inexpert removal.

This reminds me of the shroud line cutter pocket on modern flight suits...a generally useless pocket on one's left thigh.

They were usually fairly robustly sewn on. But, once they started to come loose, it was easier to just remove them.

In fact in the Air Force it was a common O'club game to tear off the offending pocket when one was spotted...and the removal often left those "inexpert" removal holes.

All supposition of course. I guess you'd need to find a inter war pilot and ask him.


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Thanks for your input, Deacon. This is a good theory that also makes sense. And I enjoyed the unknown story about the flying suits - quite a new one on me!

 

[John Lever]

Charles,
Don't get confused with the second jacket that I mentioned. That was a civi B3 China Airmotive with a hh shell and sheep lining, buckle and snap collar and cuffs.
The jacket with the Buffalo label is all sheep, cross over collar, flat seams, underarm gussets, and elastic strap hooks. The finish looks like redskin.

 

[John Lever]

Here's a B1 still with its pocket.

 

[Marc mndt]

B-1 for sale, found in Instagram

 

[John Lever]

Looks like it never had a pocket

 

[Marc mndt]

Looks like it never had a pocket

That's what I thought as well at first glance but when you zoom in you can see the stitch holes.

 

[John Lever]

Yes they are there

 

[Peter Mackin]

I wish my B2 had hide like that, it's stunning, if it had I would never have sold it.