Attorneys and Barristers of the Lounge

[Ephraim Tutt]

Kiddies in Gaol

Hells Bells you American colleagues!

I've just read in the latest ABA Journal that in Pennsylvania and Florida 7 year olds can receive a manadatory life sentence without parole!

I believe the proper legal term is WTF?!

Has it ever happened?

 

[Dreispitz]

Mediation within the VC industry?

Hi,

I am collecting material for an article. Does anyone here have non NDA or anonymised short descriptions on mediations related to venture capital investments and/or industry in the US? Limited partners vs. fonds management, VC vs. investee ...?

Please send a PM!

Cheers!

 

[Atticus Finch]

Hells Bells you American colleagues!

I've just read in the latest ABA Journal that in Pennsylvania and Florida 7 year olds can receive a manadatory life sentence without parole!

I believe the proper legal term is WTF?!

Has it ever happened?

That does seem harsh, even to the ear of a career prosecutor. The Tar Heel State draws the line at thirteen. Our transfer statute is below. The "Class A felony" contemplated by the statute is first degree murder. In North Carolina, FDM is punishable by death or life without parole...but I've never known a prosecutor to go capital on a juvenile...

Article 22.

Probable Cause Hearing and Transfer Hearing.

§ 7B‑2200. Transfer of jurisdiction of juvenile to superior court.

After notice, hearing, and a finding of probable cause the court may, upon motion of the prosecutor or the juvenile's attorney or upon its own motion, transfer jurisdiction over a juvenile to superior court if the juvenile was 13 years of age or older at the time the juvenile allegedly committed an offense that would be a felony if committed by an adult. If the alleged felony constitutes a Class A felony and the court finds probable cause, the court shall transfer the case to the superior court for trial as in the case of adults. (1979, c. 815, s. 1; 1991 (Reg. Sess., 1992), c. 842, s. 1; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 22, s. 25; 1998‑202, s. 6.)

AF

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Hi,

I am collecting material for an article. Does anyone here have non NDA or anonymised short descriptions on mediations related to venture capital investments and/or industry in the US? Limited partners vs. fonds management, VC vs. investee ...?

Please send a PM!

Cheers!

I'm no use to you at all on this one Dreispitz. Perhaps one of our US colleagues may offer some clue.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

That does seem harsh, even to the ear of a career prosecutor. The Tar Heel State draws the line at thirteen. Our transfer statute is below. The "Class A felony" contemplated by the statute is first degree murder. In North Carolina, FDM is punishable by death or life without parole...but I've never known a prosecutor to go capital on a juvenile...




AF

We often have calls for similar legislation here Atticus - particularly following some awful crime committed by juveniles.

But it doesn't make a lot of sense to argue that minors lack capacity to vote, make contracts, etc, but do have adult capacity to commit crimes. I'm no softy, but I prefer to look at long-term solutions, and charging children as adults and removing them from the juvenile justice system is no solution. Hell - even Texas doesn't do that!

 

[carebear]

Florida seems to be leading the nation on non-capital juvie LWOP cases.

I read daily the following professional legal blogs which have been following the issue lately. You'll have to search or scroll down.

http://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/

http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/crimprof_blog/

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/

http://volokh.com/

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

I'm not sure that going full throttle in reverse can really be described as 'leading', Carebear.
That's the only trouble with democracy. We let politicians make laws - for political reasons.

 

[David Conwill]

Of interest to this group, perhaps:

I’m in the process of reading a case regarding what became Henry the Hatter’s Hamtramck location: Polczynski v Nowicki, 198 NW 976 (Mich. 1924). It seems Mrs. Nowicki didn’t want to sell her building to Mr. Polczynski, and tried to clobber him with a broom when he tendered his down payment (in cash! Ten $1000 bills, to be exact).

What history. It’s a shame they had to close that location down this year, but economic realities what they are in this state, I’m grateful we’ve still got the downtown location.

-Dave

 

[Atticus Finch]

I'm not sure that going full throttle in reverse can really be described as 'leading', Carebear.
That's the only trouble with democracy. We let politicians make laws - for political reasons.

Perhaps of interest...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34016501/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

AF

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Thanks Atticus.
Certainly of interest. A sad and difficult case. Should this troubled kid be tried as an adult? I can't see how justice is served by doing so.

On another note, is the Grand Jury a uniquely American thing? Here and in the UK it is generally a magistrate who decides if there is sufficient evidence to warrant a trial.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Of interest to this group, perhaps:

I’m in the process of reading a case regarding what became Henry the Hatter’s Hamtramck location: Polczynski v Nowicki, 198 NW 976 (Mich. 1924). It seems Mrs. Nowicki didn’t want to sell her building to Mr. Polczynski, and tried to clobber him with a broom when he tendered his down payment (in cash! Ten $1000 bills, to be exact).

What history. It’s a shame they had to close that location down this year, but economic realities what they are in this state, I’m grateful we’ve still got the downtown location.

-Dave

Brilliant David - a legal tale about vintage hats! What could be more perfect for this thread?!

My slim connection with the Jos Campau St, Hamtramck Store is a Sovereign Stetson stingy brim from Mroz Hats, which Polczynski Hats became from 1945-85 prior to being bought by Henrys. That shop had been a hat store since 1919 - shame to see it pass into history.

 

[David Conwill]

Thanks Atticus.
Certainly of interest. A sad and difficult case. Should this troubled kid be tried as an adult? I can't see how justice is served by doing so.

On another note, is the Grand Jury a uniquely American thing? Here and in the UK it is generally a magistrate who decides if there is sufficient evidence to warrant a trial.

I don't know if the grand jury is unique to the United States, but it is required under the Constitution (though interestingly, this is one of the parts of the Bill of Rights not applied to the states via the 14th Amendment).

In Michigan, indictments are handled by the District Courts.

-Dave

 

[carebear]

Amendment 5 of the BofR in fact.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Most states either had it in their own Constitutions or adopted it (as with most of the enumerated individual rights) without needing formal incorporation. The Supremes in their infinite wisdom under the Due Process-based selective incorporation doctrine determined it was not a fundamental right of ordered liberty.

This is an interesting time in Constitutional Law. The Petitioner's Brief in the current McDonald v. Chicago (to incorporate the 2nd Amendment and thus overturn Chicago's handgun ban) is asking the Court incorporate under the 14th Amendment's (post-Reconstruction) P&I clause rather than due process.

This would revisit and overturn the Slaughterhouse cases, returning meaning to the P&I Clause of the 14th Amendment after more than a cenury (which would have repercussions such as incorporating the remainder of the BofR against the states and allow citizens to claim fundamental rights not specifically enumerated in the future).

Finally the fear of having soldiers quartered in time of peace without compensation will be assuaged.

Another fantastically reasoned and written brief by Alan Guru and Co.

http://www.chicagoguncase.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/08-1521-ts.pdf

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

"or otherwise infamous crime". Don't you just love it.

Chicago has a handgun ban?? Sensible folks those Chicagoans.

Our whole country has one of those!

 

[carebear]

"or otherwise infamous crime". Don't you just love it.

Chicago has a handgun ban?? Sensible folks those Chacagoans.

Our whole country has one of those!

Good idea in theory but it hasn't worked out real well for them crime wise in reality.

It isn't long for this world in any event. Still, in its passing it may help increase Constitutional freedoms for the rest of us as well.

Exciting times in jurisprudence.

 

[carebear]

And I love bits of verbiage like "or other infamous crime". Not too many other fields still use 18th Century language to such good effect.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Lawyers in Lids: Stetson Royal Deluxe Springaire

 

[Harp]

Chicago has a handgun ban??

...it's a crime.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Lawyers in Lids: Stetson Thingamajig

I don't know the name of this 1958 Stetson, so I call it a Trilby

 

[MagistrateChris]

Concerning juvenile and life sentences...

I've spent a large part of my career in Juvenile Court. Just the way it worked out as a prosecutor, and now as a Magistrate. I agree that life for a juvenile seems improper. And, yes, I think that many former juvenile delinquents go on to lead productive lives, having changed for the better. But, at the same time, I have a binder next to me, full of notorious crimes committed by adults who I'd dealt with in Juvenile Court. As the Judge says, you cannot save them all.

There is one concerning point that keeps popping up in the discussion of juvenile crime. People keep talking about the term "hope" as if it was a legal term. I even heard a radio commentator talk about the "basic human right to hope." Excuse me, but where does this come from? It's bad enough that I have some (ahem) "attorneys" who are arguing that I cannot lock up people, and citing to the Magna Carta and the Declaration of Independence as legal authority. But I see terrible things ahead if we talk about the "right to hope." Think of it...a motion to suppress evidence in a criminal trial, because the state's case is so overhwleming it is depriving the defendant of his right to hope? Come on, we can (and should) do better than fabricating new rights to justify legal actions, especially when those rights already acknowledged will do so just fine (cruel and unusual punishment?).