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[deadlyhandsome]

Am I correct that his hat is made out of felt ?

Yes, fur felt.


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[Just Daniel]

I would add that from what I have seen the size tag and brown leather sweat put the hat comfortably in the 50s.

 

[Hat and Rehat]

That Tapatalk post, and the fact I never came back with a question, was to some degree a joke that fell flat. My connection did fail three times that day, and I am going to move on to another question, but it's because I've moved on to something else, not as a raised finger to the Tapatalk app as if that would teach them to drop MY connection.
Drumming sweats. Does anyone here do it?
Is it frowned upon here, because it alters a vintage hat? The only place I ever saw it mentioned was in Ermatinger's Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating book until a few days ago. I stumbled on a blog about buying a top hat. I wasn't shopping for one, but read the article anyway. The writer mentioned having a band drummed when he was discussing used and vintage to hats.
I haven't liked the feel of any hats that I've tried to size down with felt or foam. I also have a Royal Stetson with a wonderful felt. I shaped it last night with a completely different crease, and now I REALLY like it, even though the brim is smaller than I lean toward. It's a size big. This seems like a prime candidate for drumming, and I don't see why I couldn't do it with the sweat in the hat.
Does anyone have feedback?

 

[Frunobulax]

That Tapatalk post, and the fact I never came back with a question, was to some degree a joke that fell flat. My connection did fail three times that day, and I am going to move on to another question, but it's because I've moved on to something else, not as a raised finger to the Tapatalk app as if that would teach them to drop MY connection.
Drumming sweats. Does anyone here do it?
Is it frowned upon here, because it alters a vintage hat? The only place I ever saw it mentioned was in Ermatinger's Scientific Hat Finishing and Renovating book until a few days ago. I stumbled on a blog about buying a top hat. I wasn't shopping for one, but read the article anyway. The writer mentioned having a band drummed when he was discussing used and vintage to hats.
I haven't liked the feel of any hats that I've tried to size down with felt or foam. I also have a Royal Stetson with a wonderful felt. I shaped it last night with a completely different crease, and now I REALLY like it, even though the brim is smaller than I lean toward. It's a size big. This seems like a prime candidate for drumming, and I don't see why I couldn't do it with the sweat in the hat.
Does anyone have feedback?

When installing a sweat, it should be drummed prior. So the sweats in all our hats should be drummed. Whether further drumming would reduce the size I don't know.

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[AbbaDatDeHat]

^^^ok i’ll bite. What the heck is “drumming” a sweatband?
B

 

[Hat and Rehat]

When installing a sweat, it should be drummed prior. So the sweats in all our hats should be drummed. Whether further drumming would reduce the size I don't know.

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I know that's the view here from discussions in threads I found even before I registered. You might be the first fellow lounger I heard use that term though. I know I've seen it called "belling", descriptively, and I believe "flaring", but can't remember anyone using the technical "drumming" term. If I did, it was before I read the book so it went right by me.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is really a reeded sweatband technique. You can't really drum a sweat the same way without the support of a reed. You can still flare it inward, but it will never have tension to make it drummed, when it's almost like a suspension system.
I remember one lounge thread I ran across some time back, discussing where the tape of a reeded sweatband is sewn. Observations were made about coming across hats that were sewn to the felt through the same holes as the leather was sewn to the tape. I have hats that I realized were sewn that way.
My iterpretation is that some hatters at the manufacturing level moved to reeded sweats but continued to purpose them the way they did without reeds, as a two point suspension system. They didn't take advantage of the abilty a reeded band has to function as a three point suspension.
Ermatinger's 1910 book uses the term specifically regarding the sizing down of hats. You do not get the idea that sweats were drummed as a matter of course.
He talks about it being a source of income resizing inventory for local retailers. Inventory used to be handled very differently than today. He says to cut 3/8 from each side of a back seam, then to stretch it together and resew. That is supposed to reduce a hat one size.

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[Hat and Rehat]

^^^ok i’ll bite. What the heck is “drumming” a sweatband?
B

Drumming is the word I read assigned to the leather of a sweat being pulled tight, cut shorter than the reed and it's ferule, then stretched around it. I think it was an engineering advancement in hatmaking, like a reeded sweat, but it wasn't used by all hatmakers. I'm using it as a way to reduce the size of a hat by stretching a bit less leather around the same reed.

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[M Hatman]

Here are three of the stores and the brand they sold. I’m sure there are others.

• Brent was the Montgomery Ward brand.
• Marathon was the J.C. Penny brand.
• Pilgrim was the Sears-Roebuck brand.

Also Churchill Ltd. Hats, while they were available in a limited way in a few men's wear and hat stores (most notably Capper & Capper) were largely exclusive to Neiman Marcus Stores.
M

 

[Just Jim]

This is probably a dumb question, but whattheheck. I'm in the process of making an open crown hat block. How much taper should it have from bottom to top? From past experience doing some patternmaking for casting patterns, it seems like it should have "some"--but how much is enough? I don't want to get it all done, stretch a hat over it, and wind up unable to remove the hat without cutting it off.

 

[Hat and Rehat]

When installing a sweat, it should be drummed prior. So the sweats in all our hats should be drummed. Whether further drumming would reduce the size I don't know.

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I have also installed a replacement sweat another way, learned in a thread here well before I explored the Lounge or registered. I had one to replace and some of the things found searching online confused me. I had intended to simply measure the old one and copy it, but nothing I read pointed me to that. Like many hat searches, I ended up here.
A member said he started about 1/2" from the back of the hat, sewing in the tape with the sweat unjoined at the back. He never did the final sizing of the sweat until he had sewn it to within 1/2" of the other side of center (1" from where he started.) At that point he cut the leather, then cut the reed long, working it hard into the tape until he could get the ferule in place, then finished all of the stitching, sewing the back seam by hand. That seemed like the safest way to make sure my reed rode in the same place around the crown because when I followed other people's advice about assembling the sweat from head measurements it was obvious to me that I would end up with something that didn't match what I removed.
I did my first two reeded sweats that way, ending up with tightly "drummed" sweats, though I wouldn't have called it that. It's a royal pain sewing them in while the long, unjoined part is flopping around getting in the way, so I no longer do that. It does work though, and if someone is afraid of getting sizing wrong, a way to get their feet wet until they feel more confident. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and it seems more than one to sweat a hat.

 

[Hat and Rehat]

This is probably a dumb question, but whattheheck. I'm in the process of making an open crown hat block. How much taper should it have from bottom to top? From past experience doing some patternmaking for casting patterns, it seems like it should have "some"--but how much is enough? I don't want to get it all done, stretch a hat over it, and wind up unable to remove the hat without cutting it off.

I believe the answer to that Jim is that it depends on the crown you hope to achieve. I thin slipstick is usually the best way to get the felt off, even with a significant taper.
I'd suggest that you search the internet for hat block images, then try to imitate them at least to some degree. I never looked at them with your particular question in mind, but they usually taper differently on one end than the other, and radius differently as well at the top. If you start popping all of your hat crowns out to open, I think you'll see that many were made based on the same basic block, but that sometimes the front and back were reversed.
Are you hoping to make a hat from scratch on this block, or just reshape existing crowns? If it's the first one, you need to consider how you'll flange the brim as well. A member, deadlyhandsome, brought that point to mind for me when I was fabricating blocks with no concern about them meeting industry norms. I'm very glad he did.

 

[Hat and Rehat]

Also Churchill Ltd. Hats, while they were available in a limited way in a few men's wear and hat stores (most notably Capper & Capper) were largely exclusive to Neiman Marcus Stores.
M

How much of a presence was Neiman Marcus beyond the commercial centers? As a middle American, I grew up believing Sears was the standard of trustworthy, reliable retailing. Craftsman tools, for example, were guaranteed for life. How many people actually shopped Marcus West of the Allegheny?
Maybe I have it wrong. I never really even knew of them until the modern upscale shopping mall. My brother, who has been in the clothing industry all his life, is probably the one to ask.

 

[Frunobulax]

^^^ok i’ll bite. What the heck is “drumming” a sweatband?
B

When cutting a sweat to length (say, 58 cm like me), you finish off the ends by cutting them back at an angle from the reed so that when joined, the sweat will "bell" and grip your head (along with following the taper of the crown). I worked up a quick and dirty diagram below (should have made the lettering white, I guess).

Also, the Reed arrow should be pointing to the bottom, blue portion. Oops. Toldja it was Q&D.

 

[Frunobulax]

Also Churchill Ltd. Hats, while they were available in a limited way in a few men's wear and hat stores (most notably Capper & Capper) were largely exclusive to Neiman Marcus Stores.
M

And Churchill was made by Resistol, no?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

And Churchill was made by Resistol, no?

I think Resistol bought Churchill but it was originally it’s own company.


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[Hurricane Jack]

And Churchill was made by Resistol, no?

Churchill was a part of Byer-Rolnick Hat Corp as was Resistol & Kevin McAndrew.

Pics originally posted by Landman.

 

[GHT]

Can a straw hat be re-blocked? My straws, like my felts, live in a hat box with wads of tissue paper stuffed inside them. All keep their shape with the exception of one hat. It's got a pregnant bulge around the hat band, like someone has sat on it. My missus made a polystyrene block that she fitted into the hat, left it for a month, took the block out and back came the bulge. Is there anything on the market that could treat the straw in order to make it less flexible? Or is this an excuse to buy a new hat?

 

[Bamaboots]

Can a straw hat be re-blocked?

Or is this an excuse to buy a new hat?

Yes.

 

[M Hatman]

Churchill was a part of Byer-Rolnick Hat Corp as was Resistol & Kevin McAndrew.
View attachment 174122
View attachment 174123
Pics originally posted by Landman.

Yes, my understanding is Churchill Hats was bought by Byer-Rolnick in the 1950's. They later added the "Ecuadorean" label to the line by the early 60's ......so that busines card would predate that acquisition. Image is from a 60's stock certificate image online......
M
PS did they not aquire Bradford Hats sometime around then?

 

[Hat and Rehat]

Can a straw hat be re-blocked? My straws, like my felts, live in a hat box with wads of tissue paper stuffed inside them. All keep their shape with the exception of one hat. It's got a pregnant bulge around the hat band, like someone has sat on it. My missus made a polystyrene block that she fitted into the hat, left it for a month, took the block out and back came the bulge. Is there anything on the market that could treat the straw in order to make it less flexible? Or is this an excuse to buy a new hat?

Who needs an excuse?

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