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[glider]

AND, thanks for the replies, probably saved a lot of frustration.

 

[Zombie_61]

I continue to dye....undeterred by my lack of success......but with a clenched jaw and stupid determination I refuse to admit defeat!!

Those who are about to dye salute you.

 

[Deeeluxe Definitely]

Good morning fellow hat folk,

What effect does ribbon width have on the apparent proportions of a hat? A wide ribbon will make a crown seem shorter, but will it - at the same time - make the brim seem wider or narrower than it is?

Also, does a large head size make an x" brim look wider or narrower than a small head size?

Potentially dumb questions, and it's more than one question, but hey.

 

[Blare]

Good morning fellow hat folk,

What effect does ribbon width have on the apparent proportions of a hat? A wide ribbon will make a crown seem shorter, but will it - at the same time - make the brim seem wider or narrower than it is?

Also, does a large head size make an x" brim look wider or narrower than a small head size?

Potentially dumb questions, and it's more than one question, but hey.

Not dumb questions at all. Brent @deadlyhandsome and I have the proportions and appearance discussion related to hats with the same brim or crown measurements but different head size often as we are both at opposite ends of the hat size spectrum. A hat with a 5 1/2 Crown and 2 1/2 brim will look different on me in the 7ish range than on him in the 7 3/4 range.

 

[Steve1857]

Good morning fellow hat folk,

What effect does ribbon width have on the apparent proportions of a hat? A wide ribbon will make a crown seem shorter, but will it - at the same time - make the brim seem wider or narrower than it is?

Also, does a large head size make an x" brim look wider or narrower than a small head size?

Potentially dumb questions, and it's more than one question, but hey.

Interesting questions and definitely not dumb at all.

At 6cm, this is definitely the widest ribbon on any of my hats. The crown height is 8cm and brim width is 5.5cm.

Optically, I don't think the ribbon makes the crown height or brim width look shorter. It all depends on the angle you're looking at it.

 

[Deeeluxe Definitely]

Thanks, guys, for the friendly and helpful replies!

@Blare That's a good point. Even if you had 2 hats with a 5½" crown and 2½" brim, they could vary extremely depending on the block. In my never-ending struggle to find the ideal hat for my proportions and preferences, I've found that - more than a tall crown or wide brim - the limiting factor in a hat that looks just "too big" for me is a complete lack of taper. Unfortunately I've had to concede that due to my wider head and pointy jaw (very V shaped face, which I am otherwise fine with), I look best with a bit of taper.

@Steve1857 Wow! I didn't even know they made grosgrain ribbon that wide, for any application! And even though I prefer the side bow, there's something very cool about that back cross patch. Definitely has that pre-war vibe to it. But you illustrate the point well. I really like a wide ribbon (mine, at 1 15/16" is modest in comparison!) but was concerned it would affect the crown and brim perception differently than, say, a more traditional 1¾".

Thanks again! Feel free to chime in, anyone else reading.

 

[Edward]

A very brand-specific question here:

I recently discovered that Akubra have ceased production of their Homburg model. Christys I know discontinued their bowler in anything other than standard black, but have Christys also now dropped their Homburg entirely? I'm not in a rush but looking towards eventually picking up a brown homburg, but it seems increasingly the (affordable - I can't justify Locks' GBP350 for an OTR model) furfelt homburg options are disappearing, being overtaken by wool models at sub-GBP40. Not that some of these wool options aren't nice, but they don't offer the option of putting a front pinch on them, something of which I'm rather fond.

 

[Granville]

I have two questions re: identifying a hat. First, vis-a-vis simple naming conventions, were the terms trilby and fedora interchangeable in Ireland/England during the early 1920's, with perhaps trilby being the more common name? I am obsessed with Irish history and the Irish war of independence in particular, and have found then fugitive Michael Collins described by the police as 'favoring a trilby' although no photograph of him in what we today would call a trilby seems to exist. Now it could be that once he learned of the police circular he ditched the trilby much as he similarly shaved off his mustache to avoid detection. And now part two: in these photographs of The Big Fellow, is he wearing a fedora with an upturned brim, or a homburg with side dents? I offer several photos for our experts to peruse:

Homburg or Fedora?

Here, Mick (with hands clasped) appears to be wearing a fedora with the brim snapped down. Same hat?

And here, again, same hat? Upturned Fedora or Homburg with side dents? By the way, that's Harry Boland in what to me looks like a homburg, and Eamon DeValera in an apparently dented derby.
Big thank you to anyone that can help.

 

[Aahzz]

I have a Scala fur felt Fedora that I stopped wearing several years ago. I thought Mrs Aahzz had donated it, but I have discovered that it was in fact shoved in a corner. So, I'd like to restore it to wearable shape. What is my best technique for cleaning the hat itself, definitely cleaning the sweatband, and getting the brim back into shape? The crown doesn't seem to bad, but if I'm reshaping everything I'll go there too. Pics for reference...thanks!!

 

[belfastboy]

I have two questions re: identifying a hat. First, vis-a-vis simple naming conventions, were the terms trilby and fedora interchangeable in Ireland/England during the early 1920's, with perhaps trilby being the more common name? I am obsessed with Irish history and the Irish war of independence in particular, and have found then fugitive Michael Collins described by the police as 'favoring a trilby' although no photograph of him in what we today would call a trilby seems to exist. Now it could be that once he learned of the police circular he ditched the trilby much as he similarly shaved off his mustache to avoid detection. And now part two: in these photographs of The Big Fellow, is he wearing a fedora with an upturned brim, or a homburg with side dents? I offer several photos for our experts to peruse:
View attachment 399706
Homburg or Fedora?
View attachment 399713
Here, Mick (with hands clasped) appears to be wearing a fedora with the brim snapped down. Same hat?
View attachment 399714
And here, again, same hat? Upturned Fedora or Homburg with side dents? By the way, that's Harry Boland in what to me looks like a homburg, and Eamon DeValera in an apparently dented derby.
Big thank you to anyone that can help.

At the risk of confusing the issue there is a style of hat referred to as a "Lord's" hat. It is a slightly less formal version of the Homburg. The difference is a Lords hat often has an unbound brim and has side dents. It gives it a more informal look about it. I suspect it was a style used by the landed gentry to tromp their lands.....Homburgs saved for the more formal occassions. YOur first pic is to me a Lord's hat.

I have two questions re: identifying a hat. First, vis-a-vis simple naming conventions, were the terms trilby and fedora interchangeable in Ireland/England during the early 1920's, with perhaps trilby being the more common name? I am obsessed with Irish history and the Irish war of independence in particular, and have found then fugitive Michael Collins described by the police as 'favoring a trilby' although no photograph of him in what we today would call a trilby seems to exist. Now it could be that once he learned of the police circular he ditched the trilby much as he similarly shaved off his mustache to avoid detection. And now part two: in these photographs of The Big Fellow, is he wearing a fedora with an upturned brim, or a homburg with side dents? I offer several photos for our experts to peruse:
View attachment 399706
Homburg or Fedora?
View attachment 399713
Here, Mick (with hands clasped) appears to be wearing a fedora with the brim snapped down. Same hat?
View attachment 399714
And here, again, same hat? Upturned Fedora or Homburg with side dents? By the way, that's Harry Boland in what to me looks like a homburg, and Eamon DeValera in an apparently dented derby.
Big thank you to anyone that can help.

To my eye it is not the same hat. Different colour for one. In the second pic the brim is wider with much less up turn on the brim and I cannot see any significant crown pinches (if any at all). Also, the words, Trilby, Fedora are very general terms with no definitive measurements, descriptions. Here in the Lounge is a thread that goes way back discussing (arguing) what constitutes a Trilby, a Fedora, a Stingy brim.

 

[belfastboy]

I have a Scala fur felt Fedora that I stopped wearing several years ago. I thought Mrs Aahzz had donated it, but I have discovered that it was in fact shoved in a corner. So, I'd like to restore it to wearable shape. What is my best technique for cleaning the hat itself, definitely cleaning the sweatband, and getting the brim back into shape? The crown doesn't seem to bad, but if I'm reshaping everything I'll go there too. Pics for reference...thanks!! View attachment 399717 View attachment 399718

How dirty is the hat? If it is really dirty the only way to get it clean is to tear it down i.e. remove leather sweat, liner and ribbon and either wash it in warm water or if really stained give the full naptha bath treatment. This is a lot of work putting it all back together. If it is just a stain you might try a Scout brand hat spot cleaner. If you tear the hat down you will need a block and a flange to restore the hat to its former glory.
If the spot remover works that leaves you with the brim. This again really requires a proper flange to restore it correctly. If you are willing to play with it perhaps try ironing it flat with a steam iron and press cloth then with some more steam attempt to manipulate it by hand.
Clean the leather with a Lexol cleaner and then a touch of Lexol conditioner if the leather seems dry.

 

[Rmccamey]

At the risk of confusing the issue there is a style of hat referred to as a "Lord's" hat. It is a slightly less formal version of the Homburg. The difference is a Lords hat often has an unbound brim and has side dents. It gives it a more informal look about it. I suspect it was a style used by the landed gentry to tromp their lands.....Homburgs saved for the more formal occassions. YOur first pic is to me a Lord's hat.

Good definition, Robert. That's how I understand the Lord's hat.

 

[Granville]

At the risk of confusing the issue there is a style of hat referred to as a "Lord's" hat. It is a slightly less formal version of the Homburg. The difference is a Lords hat often has an unbound brim and has side dents. It gives it a more informal look about it. I suspect it was a style used by the landed gentry to tromp their lands.....Homburgs saved for the more formal occassions. YOur first pic is to me a Lord's hat.

To my eye it is not the same hat. Different colour for one. In the second pic the brim is wider with much less up turn on the brim and I cannot see any significant crown pinches (if any at all). Also, the words, Trilby, Fedora are very general terms with no definitive measurements, descriptions. Here in the Lounge is a thread that goes way back discussing (arguing) what constitutes a Trilby, a Fedora, a Stingy brim.

Excellent answer re: Lord's Hat. Certainly in the portrait the hat looks unbound, and my understanding is Homburgs always have bound edges. As for your second answer, you don't see the pinches? The photos are of such widely different tones I'm not sure they're different colors, either (I'm assuming I haven't confused you with my captions - the "clasped hands" shot of Mick refers to the seated photo, and it is Harry Boland with his hands together, wearing the dark homburg, in the standing photo, with Mick between Harry and DeValera). But here's the relevant question given the new information you've provided: would a Lord's Hat have a snap brim, capable of being up or down?
PS: the fedora vs trilby thread is what made me start to think the terms were interchangeable, especially in Britain, with trilby being much more popular a term than fedora.
Thanks again, Belfastboy!

 

[Rmccamey]

While it has a bound brim, this Milano has a more heavily curled brim and side dents (I often refer to this as being "westernized") and reminds me more of a Lord's hat than a Homburg.

 

[Norm DePlume]

Hi all, I'm relatively new here, just a couple of posts in the "Hi, I'm new here" thread. I guess my question is whether I did something stupid. I think the answer is no, but some validation would be cool. I was sort of coveting an Open Road, and wasn't finding any used ones in the usual places (being a 7-3/8 sucks sometimes). I saw some very good prices for new ones at Outlandusa.com, but they only have a few sizes left at the bargain price, and naturally my size ain't one of them. Then I considered going the Campdraft route and rolling my own, but I already have a couple of Akubras in my tiny but fast-growing collection and kind of wanted a Stetson for my next lid. Then I saw a really good deal on open crown Premier Stratoliners at Fashionablehats.com, and after watching a couple videos by the Hats and Guitars guy about customizing those with a cattleman's crown, thought maybe that was the way to go. And then before my brain could catch up with my fingers, I had pulled the trigger and ordered one of those Premier Strats in Silverbelly. Did my fingers betray me, or was this a reasonable path (aside from the fact that buying another damn hat was in itself a completely unreasonable thing to do)?

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hi all, I'm relatively new here, just a couple of posts in the "Hi, I'm new here" thread. I guess my question is whether I did something stupid. I think the answer is no, but some validation would be cool. I was sort of coveting an Open Road, and wasn't finding any used ones in the usual places (being a 7-3/8 sucks sometimes). I saw some very good prices for new ones at Outlandusa.com, but they only have a few sizes left at the bargain price, and naturally my size ain't one of them. Then I considered going the Campdraft route and rolling my own, but I already have a couple of Akubras in my tiny but fast-growing collection and kind of wanted a Stetson for my next lid. Then I saw a really good deal on open crown Premier Stratoliners at Fashionablehats.com, and after watching a couple videos by the Hats and Guitars guy about customizing those with a cattleman's crown, thought maybe that was the way to go. And then before my brain could catch up with my fingers, I had pulled the trigger and ordered one of those Premier Strats in Silverbelly. Did my fingers betray me, or was this a reasonable path (aside from the fact that buying another damn hat was in itself a completely unreasonable thing to do)?

The Stratoliner has different blocking and a narrower brim and a different flange. It’s a great hat in its own right, but it’s quite a bit different that the OR or Campdraft. I think the narrower brim is your biggest obstacle as you can steam in more brim width If can look great with a cattleman’s crease, but it doesn’t have a lot of crown height so you might need to adjust it. Of course this now gives you the perfect excuse to add an OR sometime in the future.

 

[Norm DePlume]

The Stratoliner has different blocking and a narrower brim and a different flange. It’s a great hat in its own right, but it’s quite a bit different that the OR or Campdraft. I think the narrower brim is your biggest obstacle as you can steam in more brim width If can look great with a cattleman’s crease, but it doesn’t have a lot of crown height so you might need to adjust it. Of course this now gives you the perfect excuse to add an OR sometime in the future.

Thanks for your insights, sir! Interestingly, the Hats & Guitars guy says the Premier Strat actually has a higher crown. But yeah, the brim width seems to be the main difference. I think I'll be okay with that...though of course it's hard to say before actually putting the dang thing on my head and seeing how stupid I look.

 

[belfastboy]

Excellent answer re: Lord's Hat. Certainly in the portrait the hat looks unbound, and my understanding is Homburgs always have bound edges. As for your second answer, you don't see the pinches? The photos are of such widely different tones I'm not sure they're different colors, either (I'm assuming I haven't confused you with my captions - the "clasped hands" shot of Mick refers to the seated photo, and it is Harry Boland with his hands together, wearing the dark homburg, in the standing photo, with Mick between Harry and DeValera). But here's the relevant question given the new information you've provided: would a Lord's Hat have a snap brim, capable of being up or down?
PS: the fedora vs trilby thread is what made me start to think the terms were interchangeable, especially in Britain, with trilby being much more popular a term than fedora.
Thanks again, Belfastboy!

Ah, yes then if that is "Mick" in the middle it very well looks to be the same hat. No I have never encountered a Lord's hat with a snap brim. Usually the brims are short 2" or so and don't lend themselves to snapping down. Curled brims don't generally 'snap'. I think most 'fashion' terms do not have a hard/fast definition and there are many variations on a theme so to speak. I am not sure how the terms were used in the past but in today's nomenclature....Trilby is under 2 3/8" down to 2". Fedora is 2 3/8" on up. 2" and under is a Stingy and I do expect to be corrected on this.......as it is an eminently arguable subject. I would suspect that the terms Trilby and Fedora are and have been used rather interchangeably over the years. Interestingly they both entered into our lexicon about the same time.

 

[belfastboy]

Hi all, I'm relatively new here, just a couple of posts in the "Hi, I'm new here" thread. I guess my question is whether I did something stupid. I think the answer is no, but some validation would be cool. I was sort of coveting an Open Road, and wasn't finding any used ones in the usual places (being a 7-3/8 sucks sometimes). I saw some very good prices for new ones at Outlandusa.com, but they only have a few sizes left at the bargain price, and naturally my size ain't one of them. Then I considered going the Campdraft route and rolling my own, but I already have a couple of Akubras in my tiny but fast-growing collection and kind of wanted a Stetson for my next lid. Then I saw a really good deal on open crown Premier Stratoliners at Fashionablehats.com, and after watching a couple videos by the Hats and Guitars guy about customizing those with a cattleman's crown, thought maybe that was the way to go. And then before my brain could catch up with my fingers, I had pulled the trigger and ordered one of those Premier Strats in Silverbelly. Did my fingers betray me, or was this a reasonable path (aside from the fact that buying another damn hat was in itself a completely unreasonable thing to do)?

Once you have honed in on your sweet spot in terms of style don't rule out a custom hat. For the full list price of a Stetson Strat for a few dollars more you can commission a custom hat from a number of hatters. Better felts, better fit & finish, better sweats etc and you get to choose.

 

[Steve1857]

I have two questions re: identifying a hat. First, vis-a-vis simple naming conventions, were the terms trilby and fedora interchangeable in Ireland/England during the early 1920's, with perhaps trilby being the more common name? I am obsessed with Irish history and the Irish war of independence in particular, and have found then fugitive Michael Collins described by the police as 'favoring a trilby' although no photograph of him in what we today would call a trilby seems to exist. Now it could be that once he learned of the police circular he ditched the trilby much as he similarly shaved off his mustache to avoid detection. And now part two: in these photographs of The Big Fellow, is he wearing a fedora with an upturned brim, or a homburg with side dents? I offer several photos for our experts to peruse:
View attachment 399706
Homburg or Fedora?
View attachment 399713
Here, Mick (with hands clasped) appears to be wearing a fedora with the brim snapped down. Same hat?
View attachment 399714
And here, again, same hat? Upturned Fedora or Homburg with side dents? By the way, that's Harry Boland in what to me looks like a homburg, and Eamon DeValera in an apparently dented derby.
Big thank you to anyone that can help.

Welcome to the FL Granville. Wonderful photos of Irish Republicans from way back then. Interesting to see them from a hat perspective.

Firstly, who knows how the police, press, or others would term a hat back then. Fedora / Trilby could well be interchangeable. However, I think it safe to say, a Fedora has a wider brim than a Trilby.

Secondly, I agree with Robert @belfastboy that Michael Collins appears to be wearing a Lord's Hat style of Homburg.

Thirdly, I doubt very much that De Valera would have put pinches in his Bowler unless it was to cock a snoop at the Brits. In which case it could be likely.