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[Cornshucker77]

Bowen told me about using plain Crest toothpaste applied sparingly and using a toothbrush to work out the stain. I’ve removed stains and lessened others using the method (just for ribbon, not felt).

I have had some luck using the granulated felt cleaners and hat sponges too.

There are some threads on hat cleaning too.


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Thanks Brent. The sponge didn't work on this either, but I will try the crest.

 

[Just Jim]

This is probably a dumb question, but whattheheck. I'm in the process of making an open crown hat block. How much taper should it have from bottom to top? From past experience doing some patternmaking for casting patterns, it seems like it should have "some"--but how much is enough? I don't want to get it all done, stretch a hat over it, and wind up unable to remove the hat without cutting it off.

Trying to avoid the hoopla I inadvertently raised, I went back and took a look at some of the literature I gathered years ago when designing a sliding plate lathe chuck for oval turning. In amongst that shelf I found a couple volumes of notes from a patternmaker and machinist who worked with several of these in the 1860s and '70s.

He left several pages discussing the mathematics of the chucks, and uses making hatblocks as an example. In these notes he mentions that a one-piece block requires a minimum of 1.5 degrees of draft, i.e., from the base it must taper inward at least 1.5 degrees on each side; if the desired taper is less, or if the hat is intended to flare outward at the top, the block should be made of multiple pieces of wood. These are glued together for turning, then steamed apart afterwards.

What isn't clear from his writing is if these were intended for factory or custom work: I don't know in what context 1.5 degrees is considered the "minimum" amount of draft.

Some quick back-of-an-envelope calculations to translate degrees to inches yielded an inward taper of around .033" per inch of height on each side. For purposes of illustration, let's consider a segment of a cone (rather than the oddball shape of a hat block) that is 3" in diameter at the base, and 6" tall. To get our desired taper, the top would measure 2.6" in diameter.

 

[Frunobulax]

Trying to avoid the hoopla I inadvertently raised, I went back and took a look at some of the literature I gathered years ago when designing a sliding plate lathe chuck for oval turning. In amongst that shelf I found a couple volumes of notes from a patternmaker and machinist who worked with several of these in the 1860s and '70s.

He left several pages discussing the mathematics of the chucks, and uses making hatblocks as an example. In these notes he mentions that a one-piece block requires a minimum of 1.5 degrees of draft, i.e., from the base it must taper inward at least 1.5 degrees on each side; if the desired taper is less, or if the hat is intended to flare outward at the top, the block should be made of multiple pieces of wood. These are glued together for turning, then steamed apart afterwards.

What isn't clear from his writing is if these were intended for factory or custom work: I don't know in what context 1.5 degrees is considered the "minimum" amount of draft.

Some quick back-of-an-envelope calculations to translate degrees to inches yielded an inward taper of around .033" per inch of height on each side. For purposes of illustration, let's consider a segment of a cone (rather than the oddball shape of a hat block) that is 3" in diameter at the base, and 6" tall. To get our desired taper, the top would measure 2.6" in diameter.

It would be interesting if you were able to scan those papers in and post them. They could be very helpful to other members.

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[deadlyhandsome]

A coworker told me of a new custom hat maker who was opening shop 10 miles from my office. I excitedly stopped by the shop and engaged the charming proprietor/hatter in conversation. She was passionate and enthusiastic and very young. She had some of her hats on display and they looked...sort of decent, but not great. I asked if she had a #52 block in my size and she said she only has a couple of blocks and just makes band blocks for the sizes she doesn’t have. She has perhaps seven flanges, a Jiffy Steamer, an iron, a rounding jack, puller downer, and not much else. I asked about her prices and she said her basic Winchester beaver with a raw edge starts at $700.

I really wish her luck as we need more hatters, and I like having one local, but I can’t understand how these just starting out folks think they can command such prices. I’m dropping off some hats for ribbon and sweatband replacement (decent pricing), but I’d never consider a custom hat from her at any price. Added to this, her shop (the entire county) is located in an area of working class folks and ranchers who are not so free with their hard earned money. What are these young people thinking?




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[humanshoes]

A coworker told me of a new custom hat maker who was opening shop 10 miles from my office. I excitedly stopped by the shop and engaged the charming proprietor/hatter in conversation. She was passionate and enthusiastic and very young. She had some of her hats on display and they looked...sort of decent, but not great. I asked if she had a #52 block in my size and she said she only has a couple of blocks and just makes band blocks for the sizes she doesn’t have. She has perhaps seven flanges, a Jiffy Steamer, an iron, a rounding jack, puller downer, and not much else. I asked about her prices and she said her basic Winchester beaver with a raw edge starts at $700.

I really wish her luck as we need more hatters, and I like having one local, but I can’t understand how these just starting out folks think they can command such prices. I’m dropping off some hats for ribbon and sweatband replacement (decent pricing), but I’d never consider a custom hat from her at any price. Added to this, her shop (the entire county) is located in an area of working class folks and ranchers who are not so free with their hard earned money. What are these young people thinking?




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Pricing commensurate with hard earned experience, skill level, and quality of craftsmanship?! That's just antiquated thinking Brent.

 

[Scooterz]

Something like the spot on this ribbon knot? I have tried lighter fluid, soap, alcohol and I can not get it out.
View attachment 175875

Similar in color but on the felt. I am thinking the hat sponge might work.

 

[Rmccamey]

It does sound outlandish so we can only speculate. Many people who start in business often factor in their own labor, and their art, at unrealistic prices. I'm quite convinced they search the internet for pricing that they like rather than what is realistic.

A coworker told me of a new custom hat maker who was opening shop 10 miles from my office. I excitedly stopped by the shop and engaged the charming proprietor/hatter in conversation. She was passionate and enthusiastic and very young. She had some of her hats on display and they looked...sort of decent, but not great. I asked if she had a #52 block in my size and she said she only has a couple of blocks and just makes band blocks for the sizes she doesn’t have. She has perhaps seven flanges, a Jiffy Steamer, an iron, a rounding jack, puller downer, and not much else. I asked about her prices and she said her basic Winchester beaver with a raw edge starts at $700.

I really wish her luck as we need more hatters, and I like having one local, but I can’t understand how these just starting out folks think they can command such prices. I’m dropping off some hats for ribbon and sweatband replacement (decent pricing), but I’d never consider a custom hat from her at any price. Added to this, her shop (the entire county) is located in an area of working class folks and ranchers who are not so free with their hard earned money. What are these young people thinking?




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[Yamahana]

Something like the spot on this ribbon knot? I have tried lighter fluid, soap, alcohol and I can not get it out.
View attachment 175875

I have had pretty good luck on a lot of stains with 50/50 distilled water and vinegar on felt, ribbons and suede shoes

 

[Cornshucker77]

I have had pretty good luck on a lot of stains with 50/50 distilled water and vinegar on felt, ribbons and suede shoes

Thanks I might give that a try.

 

[Bamaboots]

Thanks I might give that a try.

Something you may consider is diluted ammonia as a sort of last resort. 10-1 ratio of water to ammonia applied sparingly with a q-tip. Use caution.

 

[Andrew friedhofen]

Pricing commensurate with hard earned experience, skill level, and quality of craftsmanship?! That's just antiquated thinking Brent.

Yes it's called passion and the American dream. She may become one of the greats.

 

[humanshoes]

Yes it's called passion and the American dream. She may become one of the greats.

She may indeed Andrew, and I truly hope she does. I believe the world needs more hatters and I'm delighted to see this trend amongst the younger generations to recapture old skills and fine craftsmanship. I started making hats with fewer tools than she has and made some pretty decent hats right out of the gate, however, not being a master hatter, I didn't bring them to market at master hatter prices. That's just me, though. I think she should charge whatever she feels is appropriate for her product. The market will respond, one way or the other. Success is not just an American dream, but a dream shared by passionate entrepreneurs the world over.

 

[Andrew friedhofen]

She may indeed Andrew, and I truly hope she does. I believe the world needs more hatters and I'm delighted to see this trend amongst the younger generations to recapture old skills and fine craftsmanship. I started making hats with fewer tools than she has and made some pretty decent hats right out of the gate, however, not being a master hatter, I didn't bring them to market at master hatter prices. That's just me, though. Who really knows for sure what pricing structure any particular market will bear. I think she should charge whatever she feels is appropriate for her product. The market will respond, one way or the other. It's not just an American dream, but a dream shared by passionate entrepreneurs the world over.

She may indeed Andrew, and I truly hope she does. I believe the world needs more hatters and I'm delighted to see this trend amongst the younger generations to recapture old skills and fine craftsmanship. I started making hats with fewer tools than she has and made some pretty decent hats right out of the gate, however, not being a master hatter, I didn't bring them to market at master hatter prices. That's just me, though. Who really knows for sure what pricing structure any particular market will bear. I think she should charge whatever she feels is appropriate for her product. The market will respond, one way or the other. It's not just an American dream, but a dream shared by passionate entrepreneurs the world over.

 

[Andrew friedhofen]

Well put. 30 years ago a good friend of mine began making pool cues. His first work was crude and simple, poor inlay work, etc. But he got much better. Now his average cue costs 3-5 thousand dollars, and many in the 15-20,000 range. Collectors all over the world have his cues, and he has been elected best cue maker in the world several times. He worked out of a farm house in the middle of nowhere. His name is Andy Gilbert.

 

[humanshoes]

Well put. 30 years ago a good friend of mine began making pool cues. His first work was crude and simple, poor inlay work, etc. But he got much better. Now his average cue costs 3-5 thousand dollars, and many in the 15-20,000 range. Collectors all over the world have his cues, and he has been elected best cue maker in the world several times. He worked out of a farm house in the middle of nowhere. His name is Andy Gilbert.

Perfect example of the marketplace responding to hard earned knowledge, experience, and quality of craftsmanship. If he were a novice cue maker asking 5K for his early efforts then they'd probably be having the same discussion about him over on the Pool Cue Lounge...or wherever it is those guys hang out.

 

[belfastboy]

A coworker told me of a new custom hat maker who was opening shop 10 miles from my office. I excitedly stopped by the shop and engaged the charming proprietor/hatter in conversation. She was passionate and enthusiastic and very young. She had some of her hats on display and they looked...sort of decent, but not great. I asked if she had a #52 block in my size and she said she only has a couple of blocks and just makes band blocks for the sizes she doesn’t have. She has perhaps seven flanges, a Jiffy Steamer, an iron, a rounding jack, puller downer, and not much else. I asked about her prices and she said her basic Winchester beaver with a raw edge starts at $700.

I really wish her luck as we need more hatters, and I like having one local, but I can’t understand how these just starting out folks think they can command such prices. I’m dropping off some hats for ribbon and sweatband replacement (decent pricing), but I’d never consider a custom hat from her at any price. Added to this, her shop (the entire county) is located in an area of working class folks and ranchers who are not so free with their hard earned money. What are these young people thinking?

Perhaps she did a google search of "big city" hatters and just replicated their pricing. For me having to pay in Canadian dollars one of her hats would hit the $1000++.....pretty soon you are talking real money here. I wish her well as I would any young person starting a new venture but starting out charging at the top of the range is indeed a head scratcher. Charging prices that are double those of the master hatters here in The Lounge requires real chutzpah (sp?)


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[moehawk]

Just stick a match behind the ribbon and that $700 hat would seem like a bargain... *ducks the barrage of shoes, hat brushes, cats and other handy-to-throw objects*
Sorry, couldn't pass that one up!

 

[Frunobulax]

Just stick a match behind the ribbon and that $700 hat would seem like a bargain... *ducks the barrage of shoes, hat brushes, cats and other handy-to-throw objects*
Sorry, couldn't pass that one up!

Nah, I'm meaner than that. I don't need to throw anything, just remind you the Giants are 19.5 games out. [emoji38]

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[moehawk]

Nah, I'm meaner than that. I don't need to throw anything, just remind you the Giants are 19.5 games out. [emoji38]

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Yes, but only like 6 out of the wild card. And we have Dungeness crab sandwiches at the park.
So there.

 

[humanshoes]

Just stick a match behind the ribbon and that $700 hat would seem like a bargain... *ducks the barrage of shoes, hat brushes, cats and other handy-to-throw objects*
Sorry, couldn't pass that one up!

Say what you will about those matchstick hats moehawk, those clever folks created an upscale market where none previously existed. A twisted sort of genius at work there and one would be hard pressed to knock the business model.