Another "Holy Grail" suit up on Ebay- a full edwardian sack suit.

[Fidena]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPERB-MENS...pt=Vintage_Men_s_Clothing&hash=item3cbd6067f6

In great condition, too. $475 and 2 offers already. Don't anticipate this being up for very long.

 

[resortes805]

What makes this a 'holy grail' suit?

This is a sincere question.

What are the details that make this suit someone's end-all, be-all dream suit.

 

[Fidena]

What makes this a 'holy grail' suit?

This is a sincere question.

What are the details that make this suit someone's end-all, be-all dream suit.

The fact such an old suit exists nearly unblemished isn't enough?

Is there an established criteria I'm missing out on?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The fact such an old suit exists unblemished isn't enough?

Is there an established criteria I'm missing out on?

What Resortes805 wants to know is ... do you call this a "Holy Grail" suit because you see it as an "end-all, be-all dream suit"? And if so, what makes it an end-all, be-all dream suit in your estimation?


I don't reckon that Resorte805 is judging or criticizing you; it's just that he wishes to see this suit through your eyes, since his eyes don't tell him that it's a Holy Grail item.

 

[Fidena]

What Resortes805 wants to know is ... do you call this a "Holy Grail" suit because you see it as an "end-all, be-all dream suit"? And if so, what makes it an end-all, be-all dream suit in your estimation?


I don't reckon that Resorte805 is judging or criticizing you; it's just that he wishes to see this suit through your eyes, since his eyes don't tell him that it's a Holy Grail item.

Oh. Well because of the age of it. I haven't been in the game for vintage suits for very long, so I might come across as inexperienced, but this is the first complete Edwardian sack I've seen so far on Ebay complete and without any gashes, tears or stains. Another nice thing is it has that novelty of the age- specialized fob hole, slanted breast pocket, cloth covered buttons, heavily overlapped front and high vest. Very rare, as far as I know. Mis-labeled as a 30's suit, though.

 

[Two Types]

What makes this a 'holy grail' suit?

This is a sincere question.

What are the details that make this suit someone's end-all, be-all dream suit.

Personally, if i wore Edwardian clothing and it fitted, I would be in utter rapture to see this suit. The condition is beyond belief for its age. Even back in the 1980s I never saw suits like this for sale. Furthermore, most British males of the period were seldom lucky enough to own more than one suit. Even those that did would be lucky to own more than two. So for such an item to still exist, without being worn out, is a revelation.
Also, look at the price with a few days still to go.

I don't know who first started using the term 'holy grail' in relation to suits, but if it means a suit that you always dreamed of, never expected to see and are desperate to own: This is a 'Holy Grail' suit.

 

[davidraphael]

It's not Edwardian, by the way.
Edwardian is up to 1910.

I believe the period is simply called 'the interwar period', though Eddie VIII did reign during that period (well, for a few months anyway). The Georges were mostly running the show during this time

 

[Shangas]

I'm confused here. Why is it called an Edwardian suit when it's dated the 1930s? The Edwardian era was from 1901-1910.

Also, in the listing, it says it's a "four piece suit".

...Jacket...waistcoat...trousers...

...what's the fourth piece? Tie?

 

[Rudie]

It's all in the listing. The fourth piece is a trouser lining that can be buttoned in.

 

[Fidena]

I'm confused here. Why is it called an Edwardian suit when it's dated the 1930s? The Edwardian era was from 1901-1910.

Also, in the listing, it says it's a "four piece suit".

...Jacket...waistcoat...trousers...

...what's the fourth piece? Tie?

It's mis-listed. And it is the inter-war period, davidraphael's right. The fourth piece is the trouser lining.

 

[Two Types]

There seems to be some confusion here. The seller claims it is a thirties suit. If so, it was made for a rather old fashioned gentleman. I would still claim it is Edwardian. Although in the stricest sense the Edwardian era lasted 1901 to 1910, the phrase is regularly used for later years, in particular the period between the death of Edward VII in 1910 and the start of the Great War in 1914.
It seems to me to be cut in an Edwardian style, and we don't know the actual date (apart from the seller's claimed date of the 1930s). I'm sticking with Edwardian.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

No-one knows the true age of this suit. It is not dated. The seller thinks it might be from the 1930s, and so put that date in the auction.

I am personally of the opinion that it's earlier than that, and that it might even be pre-Edwardian, 1880s or so. But obviously it could equally be a stage costume made much later "in the style of" …

Why is it a "Holy Grail" suit? If it's verifiably from the Edwardian era or earlier, I've never seen one outside a museum. And even those museum pieces are generally moth central. I've seen pieces here and there - particularly French stuff - trousers, jackets, breeches, but again it's ALWAYS mothed beyond saving.

The apparent age, coupled with the apparent quality, makes this an astonishingly rare, once in a lifetime suit, and therefore its rarity makes it "Holy Grail" for anyone interested in Victorian and Edwardian clothing.

It's like finding a Boer War dated slouch hat, with provenance. It might be a bit esoteric for the general vintage crowd, who tend towards 30s/40s stuff, but for the right searcher …

bk

 

[Qirrel]

I am personally of the opinion that it's earlier than that, and that it might even be pre-Edwardian, 1880s or so. But obviously it could equally be a stage costume made much later "in the style of" …

The trousers have (permanent) turn-ups, which I believe was not seen until the late 1890s.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Yes, I saw those. There is the possibility that the turnups are not original, but obviously I don't know this, it's only a possibility.

Also, I would bring people's attention to the fantastic treatment of the waistband:

 

[Two Types]

No-one knows the true age of this suit. It is not dated. The seller thinks it might be from the 1930s, and so put that date in the auction.

I am personally of the opinion that it's earlier than that, and that it might even be pre-Edwardian, 1880s or so. But obviously it could equally be a stage costume made much later "in the style of" …

I too thought about the possiblity of it being a stage costume. However, I would not expect a costume to have such good details as the additional button-in trouser linings. Why would anyone include such a detail on a costume?

I also wondered about whether it might have been a later piece made as a uniform for someone working in a very formal setting (maybe a servant?). Again, the extra lining and the fine details suggests its not a 1920s made servant's uniform (which would most likely have had striped morning trousers).

So, I agree: A amazingly rare, very old suit.

 

[Qirrel]

The cut of this coat would have been utterly outdated by 1920, to the point that you wouldn't want your servants to wear it. There doesn't seem to be much waist suppression at all, which would have been very common in the 20s and most definitely the 30s. There is no front dart, which was also much more common on earlier lounges. The fronts which are curved almost like a 90 degree section of a circle were out by the 20s. The fabric covered buttons, high buttoning vest and the stitched cuffs also point to earlier dates. It could very well be a reproduction, but does that really matter?

 

[Fidena]

The cut of this coat would have been utterly outdated by 1920, to the point that you wouldn't want your servants to wear it. There doesn't seem to be much waist suppression at all, which would have been very common in the 20s and most definitely the 30s. There is no front dart, which was also much more common on earlier lounges. The fronts which are curved almost like a 90 degree section of a circle were out by the 20s. The fabric covered buttons, high buttoning vest and the stitched cuffs also point to earlier dates. It could very well be a reproduction, but does that really matter?

I've perused through a few early 00's men's wear magazines on Google, and the suit designs were pretty diverse. The reproduction angle is very possible, where the fabric would be telling. Does it look like an extinct fabric or not?

 

[esteban68]

Edwardian era loosely 1901-1914 fashions don't change as soon as an era ends so quite likely a bit later or even a bit earlier, I don't see any reason why a 'conservative' and possibly religious(there were still many church and chapel goers before the great war) Englishman would go for the 'latest thing'...I have some photo's kicking about in a book somewhere of local elderly ladies dressed in the fashions of the 1880's complete with white bonnets though the photo(s) are clearly dated mid 1920's!
Doubtful in my mind for theater as far too involved, a work colleague of mine does amateur dramatics and most of their stuff is charity/thrift shop stuff apart from 'specials which are run up in roughly correct cloth(but usualy easy care cloth) and styles quite cheaply.
As to repro I doubt that very much certainly from a UK makers point of view as even now stuff like this turns up on occassion and from chats with local charity shop managers much of it never makes it to the rails as " no one wants it we send it by weight to be recycled"

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Does it look like an extinct fabric or not?

It looks like a black wool serge to me.

 

[Tomasso]

The cut of this coat would have been utterly outdated by 1920, to the point that you wouldn't want your servants to wear it.

There is much photographic evidence showing older men wearing the style of their day standing aside younger men wearing the current styles. There is a tendency around here to think that there was a clear distinct division of style periods; that people would throw out all their dated clothes and buy into the newest style of the day. Not so, there was always a mishmash of periods worn on the street as many were either resistant to change or couldn't afford the change. And tailors would regularly make the old styles for their older clients who were not interested in the newer styles.