Another cleaning challenge

[tonyb]

Gents and ladies,

I recently acquired a vintage Knox 25 of an Open Road style. I bought it cheap; the seller asked a low price on account of the hat having a few small moth nibbles and one pretty good sized divot. I'm happy I bought it, even with the moth damage, because it's such a sharp-lookin' hat otherwise, with a wider than average brim and an untapered, tallish crown. The damage just makes it all the more suitable to wear in rainy weather, which we get with some regularity out here. Heck, it even has a wind string, complete with a tiny Knox logo printed on the button.

It wasn't until I looked at the hat in the out of doors on a very bright day that I noticed another little problem -- a bit of discoloring at the bottom of the crown. Initially I thought it was the same sort of damage another Lounger (Snrbfshn, as I recall) had posted photos of some time back -- a discoloration apparently caused by the felt having been in long-term contact with something (acid?) in the cardboard that makes up the box in which the hat had been stored. But upon closer examination (I pulled the sweatband down to see how things looked from the inside) it appears that the discoloration was caused by dye transferring from the sweatband to the felt. The stain is the same color as the underside of the sweatband (but fainter, of course), it's more pronounced on the hat's interior than on the outside, and it reaches up the crown exactly as high as the sweatband does.

I was just gonna get a fresh gallon of VM&P naphtha at the Home Depot and let the hat soak upside down in it (with the sweatband turned out and the naphtha level right at the crown/brim junction, so that the felt soaks but the leather stays dry), but then I read of Rick Blaine's recent hat-cleaning catastrophe and had second thoughts.

It's not that this staining renders the hat unwearable. As I already mentioned, it's a foul-weather lid anyway, and the problem is scarcely noticeable in anything but the brightest daylight. But still, I'd like to address it somehow.

Suggestions, anyone?

 

[Davidson]

I've just started messing around with things like this, but the more experience I get, the more cautious I am becoming.

Option one would be to check with a pro to see if they will take it on. Cost could be the issue with that.

If it was my hat, first I would decide how upset I would be if I ended up throwing it in the trash. Very upset, then see option one above (or do nothing).

But it sounds like you maybe are willing to take some risk.

A test to see if it is going to work could be to start with a sponge or soft cloth and some naphtha (or alcohol or acetone might also work). Turn the sweatband down. Wet the cloth and try gently on a section that is "stained". I would probably try the inside of the felt first If it works pretty well, I might just try to get it done that way (no dipping, no soaking).

Or, how I might proceed (the more cautious and time-consuming way):
- Remove the liner.
- Remove the sweatband (yeah, I know, it's a pain to put back - but if it is the source of the staining...)
- Remove the ribbon.
- All outdoors, of course, from here on out. No flames.
- Soak the whole hat. I have doubts that just putting it in will make the line magically go away, some agitation may help. Or it may just stay there.
- Try the same on the sweatband (separately). You can mess up the finished side, so be careful. The idea being maybe you can keep it from getting worse or happening again.
- Let dry and put the hat back together.

The less cautious way would be as you originally had in mind. But have you seen how felt wicks naphtha? It will pull it through inches of dry felt, out to the brim edge if given a few minutes. It will get at least some part of the sweatband wet. Then, if you see color instead of clear, the panic sets in Frankly, I probably wouldn't try this.

An excellent alternative would be to put a new, wider ribbon on the hat. Safe, fun picking out the new ribbon, no line, etc.

"Do no harm"

 

[tonyb]

Yeah, I've used the magic potion on a few occasions so I'm kinda familiar with how it's likely to behave. And yeah, you're probably right -- some amount of naphtha is likely to wick its way up the sweatband, even if that sweatband remains above the high tide line. Still, turning out the sweatband and soaking the hat upside down, so that the sweatband remains above the naphtha level and (more importantly) out of direct contact with the felt would seem prudent, seeing how it appears that this sweat is prone to giving up some of its dye.
That wider ribbon solution had crossed my mind, but I kinda like this lid the way it is. That thin ribbon makes it less dressy looking (to my eyes, anyway), so that little bit of moth damage (which only hat fanciers or other unusually observant folks would notice right off the bat) seems less "wrong." You know, kinda like how a crudely executed patch on a pair of blue jeans might seem more "right" than a more careful repair to a pair of suit trousers.
I'm thinking that it could well take several hours (or days, even) for the discoloration to go away, provided it goes away at all.
And you're right, Dr. Davidson -- first, do no harm.

 

[riccardo]

Summertime.

Hi to all,
summer are coming, and we are ready to clean our felt before store them.
I think that could be a great thing to look some pics about " how to clean a felt hat" anyone of you, guy, could make this for us?

Many thanks.
Riccardo.

 

[tonyb]

I'm resurrecting this thread to pass along a potentially helpful tip. And to gloat a bit.
I considered using that Scout brand hat cleaner (per the always-helpful Snrbfshn's advice), but the local western wear shop had none in stock and I didn't feel like ordering the stuff online. Then I remembered that under my kitchen sink, among a bunch of other cleaning products, resided a can of upholstery cleaner. Worth a try? Sure, I figured.
It worked just fine, I'm pleased to report. The brand name is Tuff Stuff Multi-Purpose Foam Cleaner. It comes out of the can as a white foam and fairly quickly soaks into the fabric (or felt, in this case). I gave the hat four or five applications of the stuff, going over it with a water-moistened sponge each time (per the instructions on the can) and allowing the hat to air dry (it's been quite warm here today) between applications.
I bought the stuff at an auto parts store a coupla-three ago, I think it was. Can't remember what it cost, but I'm confident it is considerably less expensive than the Scout stuff, which one online source sells for $7.95 for the 7-ounce can. The Tuff Stuff comes in a 22-ounce can; I've used it to touch up car upholstery and upholstered furniture in the house and even the wall-to-wall carpet in the bedroom, and there is still quite a bit of it left in the can, judging by its heft. Point is, the amount you'd use on a typical hat would cost you a buck, maybe. If that.
The discoloration is all but gone (just the faintest bit of it remains, in only a spot or two, which I'm guessing will disappear with another application or two), and the cleaner has done no apparent damage to the hat. Indeed, the felt has a nicer feel to it than it did before this treatment. So I'm happy.
Now, if I wake up tomorrow to find a mound of dust where that hat used to be ...

 

[FedoraGent]

I'm resurrecting this thread to pass along a potentially helpful tip. And to gloat a bit.
I considered using that Scout brand hat cleaner (per the always-helpful Snrbfshn's advice), but the local western wear shop had none in stock and I didn't feel like ordering the stuff online. Then I remembered that under my kitchen sink, among a bunch of other cleaning products, resided a can of upholstery cleaner. Worth a try? Sure, I figured.
It worked just fine, I'm pleased to report. The brand name is Tuff Stuff Multi-Purpose Foam Cleaner. It comes out of the can as a white foam and fairly quickly soaks into the fabric (or felt, in this case). I gave the hat four or five applications of the stuff, going over it with a water-moistened sponge each time (per the instructions on the can) and allowing the hat to air dry (it's been quite warm here today) between applications.
I bought the stuff at an auto parts store a coupla-three ago, I think it was. Can't remember what it cost, but I'm confident it is considerably less expensive than the Scout stuff, which one online source sells for $7.95 for the 7-ounce can. The Tuff Stuff comes in a 22-ounce can; I've used it to touch up car upholstery and upholstered furniture in the house and even the wall-to-wall carpet in the bedroom, and there is still quite a bit of it left in the can, judging by its heft. Point is, the amount you'd use on a typical hat would cost you a buck, maybe. If that.
The discoloration is all but gone (just the faintest bit of it remains, in only a spot or two, which I'm guessing will disappear with another application or two), and the cleaner has done no apparent damage to the hat. Indeed, the felt has a nicer feel to it than it did before this treatment. So I'm happy.
Now, if I wake up tomorrow to find a mound of dust where that hat used to be ...

It sounds like that worked out for you, but I am a bit leary about not using anything but Scout. Do you have pictures of the newly cleaned hat? How does the material feel? Is it the same texture as it was before? How long did it take to dry?

FG.

 

[tonyb]

Yeah, I certainly understand a person's reluctance to subject his prized lids to any uncertain treatment. (Witness what happened to Blaine a couple of months ago.) But I have only a few bucks into this hat and it does have that moth damage, so I figured what the hell.
The texture of the felt is nicer than it was before, I'd say. It appears that the sponge raised the nap a bit.
How long did it take to dry? Oh, a half hour or 45 minutes, I suppose. But that was outside, in direct sunlight, on a warm (upwards of 90 degrees) afternoon. In cooler, damper weather, it would take much longer, I'd imagine.

 

[RedPop4]

Interesting suggestion, I'll look into that, as well.

 

[ideaguy]

was out in the weather yesterday-a balmy 95F with a dewpoint of 75-made me
a little lightheaded...dimly remembered needed to clean some lids; sat for 1/2
hr contemplating best method (also baking brain to med. rare-forgot to wear a hat, figured head full of black hair would insulate me well...) rocks finally fell out of one ear, went in and donned a favorite felt,filled a bucket with naptha, and
grabbed an icepack to wrap around neck to save the last 7 brain cells.
back out in sun, now a little disoriented-heat up a few more degrees, the aroma
of naptha filling my schnozz...pulled up a chair, put down the bucket, clamped the fedora on tight, and just dunked my head right in.
hats' nice and clean....but I keep seeing 3 of everything, and my hair feels a little like moss...
did I do something wrong?[huh]

 

[Undertow]

I think I'll try this "Tough Stuff" idea. I'm sure I have some lying around and my hat has a few spots that need touching up.

I'll try to post pictures for everyone.

 

[tinmanzzz]

Help With Dust, Dust and More Dust.

I recently aquired a (Dare I say it) a Cowboy Hat.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130134586951&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=003

It is a Stetson 20X "Black Beauty" and is in mint condition except for the dust. Now, I'm not talking normal Dust, I'm talking plant corn in it dust. It appears someone had this hat hanging out for years. I have brushed it and vacuumed it but I still feel there is more dust.
Any ideas on deep cleaning ?? Steam ??

<a href="http://img234.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackbeautydu5.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/7062/blackbeautydu5.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a>
This is what it should look like.

 

[astaire]

I'm resurrecting this thread to pass along a potentially helpful tip. And to gloat a bit.
I considered using that Scout brand hat cleaner (per the always-helpful Snrbfshn's advice), but the local western wear shop had none in stock and I didn't feel like ordering the stuff online. Then I remembered that under my kitchen sink, among a bunch of other cleaning products, resided a can of upholstery cleaner. Worth a try? Sure, I figured.
It worked just fine, I'm pleased to report. The brand name is Tuff Stuff Multi-Purpose Foam Cleaner. It comes out of the can as a white foam and fairly quickly soaks into the fabric (or felt, in this case). I gave the hat four or five applications of the stuff, going over it with a water-moistened sponge each time (per the instructions on the can) and allowing the hat to air dry (it's been quite warm here today) between applications.
I bought the stuff at an auto parts store a coupla-three ago, I think it was. Can't remember what it cost, but I'm confident it is considerably less expensive than the Scout stuff, which one online source sells for $7.95 for the 7-ounce can. The Tuff Stuff comes in a 22-ounce can; I've used it to touch up car upholstery and upholstered furniture in the house and even the wall-to-wall carpet in the bedroom, and there is still quite a bit of it left in the can, judging by its heft. Point is, the amount you'd use on a typical hat would cost you a buck, maybe. If that.
The discoloration is all but gone (just the faintest bit of it remains, in only a spot or two, which I'm guessing will disappear with another application or two), and the cleaner has done no apparent damage to the hat. Indeed, the felt has a nicer feel to it than it did before this treatment. So I'm happy.
Now, if I wake up tomorrow to find a mound of dust where that hat used to be ...

I acquired a Dobbs and a Borsalino that I think have similar problems with your hat. What got me thinking was when you mention how the felt "feels" better after the cleaning treatment: could it be possible that the discoloration is due to the stiffener that was applied to the hat 40 or 50 years ago?

My Dobbs is a Dobbs Twenty and the Borsalino also has the Cavanagh edge. I would imagine that these hats would most likely be made from better felt and thus be soft and buttery. But they're not! they're almost as stiff as cardboard

I think stiffeners should become yellowish as they age. The grey Dobbs has acquired a bit 'yellowish' tinge. The Borsalino is brown, so not very easy to say if it has acquired the 'yellowing" as well.

What do the experts here say with my theory?

Thanks everyone.

 

[RBH]

I have cleaned vintage Stratoliners, Open Roads, Dobbs, and others brands of felt hats with the naphta treatment with no other effect other than a clean hat as the result.