All You Need to Know About Hat Etiquette

[cptjeff]

I am in a position that allows me to set the dress code for 150 employees. My "no hats in buildings" policy annoys younger folks. When I shuffle off this mortal coil, they may have it their way. Not until then.

If you can make a good, rational argument for the rule's existence, go ahead. If not, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't need to exist.

How about just 'Maintain a professional appearance"? or "No ballcaps"?

 

[Zombie_61]

If you can make a good, rational argument for the rule's existence, go ahead. If not, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't need to exist.

How about just 'Maintain a professional appearance"? or "No ballcaps"?

With all due respect, IMO any company is entitled to institute guidelines for their employees' appearance regardless of how arbitrary or archaic it may seem, particularly if there is interaction with that company's customers. Every employee represents that company and, though some companies are more image-conscious than others, the employees' appearance often informs the customers' perception of that company.

There may be legal precedence to support this. Walt Disney Co. took over as leaseholder of the Queen Mary in 1987, and in 1989 extended it's grooming policy (which applies to all park and hotel employees) to the ship's employees. Among those who eventually lost their jobs was First Officer John Magness, who refused to comply with Disney's "no mustaches, beards, or long hair on men" policy when he was ordered to shave the mustache he had been wearing for 42 years.

 

[KILO NOVEMBER]

Did the women have to shave their mustaches?

I used to watch Walt Disney's "Wonderful World of Color" when I was a kid. Walt always put in an appearance at the opening of the show. If Walt didn't have to shave off his mustache, then Disney Co. has a hell of nerve making such a policy for their employees!

 

[donnc]

Among those who eventually lost their jobs was First Officer John Magness, who refused to comply with Disney's "no mustaches, beards, or long hair on men" policy when he was ordered to shave the mustache he had been wearing for 42 years.

Good story, poor comparison. If I have to take my hat off in your building, at worst it's a temporary inconvenience. The hat wouldn't have served any functional purpose indoors anyway, and I can put it back on the moment I step out the door. If I have to cut my hair to suit you, I have to live with it that way.

Hats shouldn't disfigure the wearer. As our forefathers must have managed to deal with the menace of hat hair and so forth, so can we. If wearing a hat means you have to keep it on where you know you really shouldn't, then leave it at home.

 

[Zombie_61]

I used to watch Walt Disney's "Wonderful World of Color" when I was a kid. Walt always put in an appearance at the opening of the show. If Walt didn't have to shave off his mustache, then Disney Co. has a hell of nerve making such a policy for their employees!

Actually, it was Walt Disney himself who instituted the "no mustaches, no beards" policy; a clear case of "Do as I say, not as I do." Sadly, according to then Queen Mary spokesman Rich Kerlin, Disney's reason for enforcing a policy that many consider to be overly conservative was simply, "It's just that it's been a policy for 35 years."

Good story, poor comparison. If I have to take my hat off in your building, at worst it's a temporary inconvenience. The hat wouldn't have served any functional purpose indoors anyway, and I can put it back on the moment I step out the door. If I have to cut my hair to suit you, I have to live with it that way.

I see your point, and I do agree with you but, whether it's a hat or facial hair, it's still a matter of appearance. A lot of companies are image-conscious and want to be represented a certain way, and that extends to the appearance of their employees; if you want to work there, you make concessions.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Actually, it was Walt Disney himself who instituted the "no mustaches, no beards" policy; a clear case of "Do as I say, not as I do." Sadly, according to then Queen Mary spokesman Rich Kerlin, Disney's reason for enforcing a policy that many consider to be overly conservative was simply, "It's just that it's been a policy for 35 years."

I see your point, and I do agree with you but, whether it's a hat or facial hair, it's still a matter of appearance. A lot of companies are image-conscious and want to be represented a certain way, and that extends to the appearance of their employees; if you want to work there, you make concessions.

I grew up in So Calif in the '60s and '70s. Many young men and women were more than willing to follow Disney's grooming requirements for a job at Disneyland! I will admit to being a bit disappointed the last time I went to Disneyland (about five years ago.) The standards seemed to have been relaxed a bit. Among the employees I saw shirttails hanging out, things sticking out of pockets, and generally sloppy appearances (shirts needed ironing, didn't fit properly, trouser hems dragging on the ground, that sort of thing) and it really detracted from the experience for me. My memories previously were of meticulously groomed cast members. To see the degeneration had even reached Disneyland was depressing.

Many, many companies over the years have stopped requiring employees to wear uniforms or even to present a well-groomed appearance. I think part of this is fear of driving away potential employees. I think that if potential employees won't apply because you have dress and grooming requirements and enforce them they may not be the type of employee you want to hire in the first place!

Just another facet in the "casualization of society."

Cheers,
Tom

 

[cptjeff]

Many, many companies over the years have stopped requiring employees to wear uniforms or even to present a well-groomed appearance. I think part of this is fear of driving away potential employees. I think that if potential employees won't apply because you have dress and grooming requirements and enforce them they may not be the type of employee you want to hire in the first place!

You might be surprised. Highly intelligent and individualistic people tend to have a problem with rules that they don't find any logic in. Why would you implore employees to think outside of the box and then force them to comply with a narrow set of rules social norms with no real justification made several centuries ago?

Tradition for the sake of tradition doesn't cut it for a lot of people, myself included. If your reason for a policy is "just becuase", it's time for a rethink. If you want employees who 'think outside the box', you have to respect that that thinking may lead to questioning and challenging of established conventions. You have to evaluate if there's any real justification for the rule. There may well be. Establishing a uniform appearance so that customers can find or identify an employee is important in service industries. Is prohibition of hats important to that goal? I'm betting it's not. If you're trying to maintain professionalism in the workplace, you have to ask if prohibition of hats is important to realizing that goal.

Does wearing a hat or not affect the respectability of your appearance? Well, that does depend on the hat. But a proper choice of hat certainly does not detract. If it doesn't detract, what's the point?

 

[Scott Wood]

You might be surprised. Highly intelligent and individualistic people tend to have a problem with rules that they don't find any logic in. Why would you implore employees to think outside of the box and then force them to comply with a narrow set of rules social norms with no real justification made several centuries ago?

Tradition for the sake of tradition doesn't cut it for a lot of people, myself included. If your reason for a policy is "just becuase", it's time for a rethink. If you want employees who 'think outside the box', you have to respect that that thinking may lead to questioning and challenging of established conventions. You have to evaluate if there's any real justification for the rule. There may well be. Establishing a uniform appearance so that customers can find or identify an employee is important in service industries. Is prohibition of hats important to that goal? I'm betting it's not. If you're trying to maintain professionalism in the workplace, you have to ask if prohibition of hats is important to realizing that goal.

Does wearing a hat or not affect the respectability of your appearance? Well, that does depend on the hat. But a proper choice of hat certainly does not detract. If it doesn't detract, what's the point?

I agree with almost all of the arguments put forward, I am definitely a creative thinker and in that way I know that outside the box is good but I know that the service industry(Disney is in this category) fares well with stringent codes and guidelines.
I love old style class and charm and I will do things just because they harken back to a time that I would like to be a part of. [huh] :deadhorse

 

[Rider]

How ironic that I have the "no hats in buildings" personnel policy AND an avatar of Walt Disney. We may be onto something here! Maybe I'm channeling Walt Disney? lol

 

[CircuitRider]

I can still hear my Momma's voice: "Take off your hat" - "wipe your feet" - "don't chew with your mouth open" - and on, and on, and on ...

My Daddy taught by example, but my Momma taught by repetition (with a liberal application of the fly swatter to my legs if I didn't get with the program right away ). At the time it irritated me no end, but looking back (way back that is ) I am very, very thankful that they cared enough about me to teach me how to behave in public.

Poor Curly of The Three Stooges when the baileff tells him in"Disorder in the Court",Take off your hat, raise your right hand, put your left hand here.!

 

[Belegnole]

What I have found from life, history and a bit of research is that any form of etiquette has never been followed by all of society. The majority may have, but not everyone followed whichever etiquette may have been in question. Part of the reason is that the "rules" vary or varied from region to region and between social strata. Another thing is that those who write down clothing and other forms of etiquette in the past were often reinforcing social class distinctions. On top of that many may not have known or cared that there were rules of conduct to abide by.

We are looking backwards at the past and attempting to make sense of some mixed signals as to what hat etiquette really was. If we are to believe Emily Post (whom I have never thought should be telling us what to do to begin with) we would think one thing. If on the other hand we look at pictures or documentation of common people and the upper crust we would see something else. If we watch movies we might see something else entirely. Today there is only one group that I know of that has any true hat rules and that is the military. Those rules are very simple, you do NOT wear a hat in side unless your post requires it.

So, if hat etiquette is to continue into the future it is up to those wearing the hats to decide exactly what it is and teach those who come after. What worked in the 20s obviously may not work now as things have changed. However many of the rules excepted here already seem to me to be good rules in general and should continue to work for the foreseeable future.

It's up to us....

 

[Selvaggio]

Last night I got told off for having my hat on inside.

I was out to see the Mick Fleetwood Blues Band and I was walking through the club in which they were to play when an old guy called out to me and let me know what he thought of my lack of manners! (In my defence, I had literally just walked in and was on the phone a the time).

When I complied he gave me an appreciative nod - kind of nice to know that there are still people out there for whom traditional manners are important, even if I was offending them.

 

[bigbjorn]

When I complied he gave me an appreciative nod - kind of nice to know that there are still people out there for whom traditional manners are important, even if I was offending them.

Shouting at strangers in a crowded room hardly seems to align with "traditional manners."

 

[Shangas]

I only know the very basics of hat etiquette, but I follow them nonetheless. Removing one's hat when inside, doffing one's hat as a sign of greeting or respect (even if it's just a slight finger-tap on the brim) and such things. I do them out of habit when I wear a hat.

 

[QMcK]

There's a practical reason I've found for not wearing my hat whilst eating - the muscles that move my jaw also force my hat up and down when I chew.

Someone said your hat serves no purpose on your head when indoors. I beg to differ - if it's on your head, you have one fewer thing to carry. I'd take off my hat in a house or a church or a restaurant, though.

 

[Selvaggio]

Shouting at strangers in a crowded room hardly seems to align with "traditional manners."

Good point. He was old and he shouted at me in the nicest possible way - if you know what I mean.

 

[Shangas]

Was it particularly noisy in the club? Then I would understand the shouting, provided it was polite shouting.

 

[Dean]

Among those who eventually lost their jobs was First Officer John Magness, who refused to comply with Disney's "no mustaches, beards, or long hair on men" policy when he was ordered to shave the mustache he had been wearing for 42 years.

Sorry to backtrack a little - whilst I'm in favour of company dress policies where suitable, the above clearly does not take into account an important part of naval history (there's a reason why Navy Officers can have facial hair, but not Army etc) - this clearly pre-dates, and has somewhat more importance, than Mr.Disney's wee funpark...

Its a bit like telling sailors they can't have tattoo's....

Dean.

 

[Dean]

P's & Q's

I come from the country that formalised polite society. Some of this was undoubtably stiffling, but like most things it has relaxed over the years, for better or worse. England is the place where you apologise when someone treads on your foot.

My mother-in-law (who comes from a family far more acustomed to polite society than me) explained it perfectly - polite behaviour is not a redundant ritual, it is entirely to put others at ease in a recognisable manner that transcends age and gender (and hopefully race). This extends from appearance, initial contact, conversation and departing.

Whilst some elements have eroded over the years, some are entrenched - imagine for instance, if someone refused to shake your hand (a very old tradition to show that you are not armed - right hand; the military salute serves the same purpose). This is a very basic, male behaviour - how many of you don't care if a boy shakes your hand, but start to get annoyed if a teenager or young man wont?

Those that don't think that a suitable (smart?) appearance is necessary at work, particularly when meeting others, are missing the point. It may have no affect whatsoever on professionalism, but how does the customer know that? I think the only general exception is the arts, but it is particularly relevant to the service industry.

I could go on and on (but that would be impolite) about opening doors (why don't ladies open doors for men?), standing up when someone enters the room, not apologising when you sneeze (you shouldn't, by the way)....

The absence of p & q's leads to conflict, or at least missing a tea break during the fighting.....

DEAN.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Sorry to backtrack a little - whilst I'm in favour of company dress policies where suitable, the above clearly does not take into account an important part of naval history (there's a reason why Navy Officers can have facial hair, but not Army etc) - this clearly pre-dates, and has somewhat more importance, than Mr.Disney's wee funpark...

Its a bit like telling sailors they can't have tattoo's....

Dean.

Things change, Dean, at least in the US military.

In the mid-'80s the US Navy and US Coast Guard went beard-free. In the late '90s and early '00s (naughties? naughts?) the military started realizing they needed to update and align across the services the regulations regarding tattoos and piercings. Tattoos are still allowed, but have limitations such as no tattoos visible above the collar, can have up to only 25% of exposed limb tattooed, there are limitations on content, men cannot wear piercings on base even if in civilian clothes, etc. If their tattoos exceeded the limitations when put into place they had the option of having them removed or getting out.

I can't speak to what's current in the UK armed forces, though.

Regards,
Tom
Retired SMSgt, USAF