Aero to make jackets for new Hollywood WW2 Film, "The Monuments Men"

[thor]

Ok let's get back to the topic, the film "The Monuments Men"....

Anyone know why the characters in the movie are wearing A-2's in the first place? Are they former aviators now hunting down stolen artworks? Did the US Army criminal investigators and OSS-types get issued leather jackets (ha ha ha)? Are the directors just taking artistic license with wardrobe to make the main characters look cool?

 

[m0nk]

Ok let's get back to the topic, the film "The Monuments Men"....

Anyone know why the characters in the movie are wearing A-2's in the first place? Are they former aviators now hunting down stolen artworks? Did the US Army criminal investigators and OSS-types get issued leather jackets (ha ha ha)? Are the directors just taking artistic license with wardrobe to make the main characters look cool?

I was wondering some of the same, it seems like a cool concept though.

 

[Jeff M]

Ok let's get back to the topic, the film "The Monuments Men"....

Anyone know why the characters in the movie are wearing A-2's in the first place? Are they former aviators now hunting down stolen artworks? Did the US Army criminal investigators and OSS-types get issued leather jackets (ha ha ha)? Are the directors just taking artistic license with wardrobe to make the main characters look cool?

Have the book...haven't read it yet.
The cover photo shows one of the soldiers involved in the operation wearing an A2. That may have been enough.

 

[nogbat]

interesting comments , as regards vlj forums i am a reject , thank bill french ..they kept dropping my username and password , so i complained to himself ... and guess what i cant log on or contact them ,like i said before cheers bill ...

 

[Sloan1874]

From looking at the web site, there are photos of the Monuments Men and they seem to be issued with army uniforms, so it wouldn't seem to much of a leap that they'd have A-2s. Also, there is this: http://www.monumentsmenfoundation.org/bio.php?id=275

 

[Foster]

I expect most of the soldiers involved were officers. As such, they had more possibilities of getting issued certain items. A-2 jackets were issued to officers in the 82nd Airborne Division and General Patton is seen wearing a B-3 jacket (McAuliffe of the 101st who used the expression "NUTS" had a B-10, if memory serves me correct).

 

[Jeff M]

I suspect Patton could wear whatever he liked. :eeek:

 

[Edward]

I work in the textile industry, I can't help it. My intention was to illustrate how minor the difference is. Oh, and by reducing the number of stitches per inch, it makes it easier to re-line and re-zip the garment, thereby extending its life span.

Jinkies, I'm never have thought of that, but it makes absolute sense.

The fact that some people seem to think that waist bands that stretch out more readily are somehow superior to those that don't because it's more 'accurate' - as appears to be the case with Eastman's - seems bizarre to me. If I pay upwards of £400 for a jacket, I don't want built-in obsolescence.

Horses for courses, I guess. I can understand folks wanting to have something that is an exact replica of the original as-issued item, and as much as anything what they are paying for is the skill and labour involved in recreating that. I think if I was going to get seriously into re-enacting that, I might go the same route (mind you, I'd have to lose a lot of weight and the better part of twenty years too...). As it is, though, what I'm looking for is a reasonable facsimilie of a jacket of the type and era, to be worn as part of a civilian outfit - and like you I'm prepared to make some compromises once durability and price are borne in mind.

They really are two different markets. I know I've been considering that recently in the context of B10s. Since Aero reintroduced their own B10 model (long considered to be a nice jacket, but somewhat less accurate than the ELC offerings), they have sold it alongside the Pike Brothers B10. The Aero website copy seems to indicate the latter to be in some way a more substantial, if less accurate jacket. The term Aero use is "overengineered" - but they clearly see there is a market for both approaches. (Me, I'm a bit more a fan of the B15, but I wouldn't walk past the right B10. The Barry Lyndon / Spearhead guy on eBay has some of both that look really nice.... I'm sure far from a Buzz, but also about a third of the price or a bit under. If they're a durable item of clothing). As they say, you pays your money....

Back to the topic of Aero being chosen as the jacket maker for this movie.
I suspect that there are several factors involved in how a movie producer/costume designer choses an outside clothing manufacturer.
How the item looks on screen, cost, availability (will it take 2 years to get the jackets, or 6 weeks?) ability to produce multiple copies of jackets for stunt personel/back up. "Stitch by stitch" (hate to use that term now) authenticity I suspect is not as high a priority.
Aero seems like a logical choice.

Absolutely. While I'd never object to someone wanting things as accurate as possible, we do also have to consider how few of us could honestly tell the difference in action during the film, let alone regular punters who have no knowledge of the jackets at all. From that POV we're truly lucky they're not issuing them with current issue A2s, hand warmers and all (mind you, for folks in the very background?? I mean, how many people honestly noticed the low-end wool hats in the distance crowd scenes in Seabiscuit?). Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking ordinary cinema-goers, no reason why they should really know anything about our interests. But bearing in mind that I've met any number of people who have referred to my AN6552 (an Aero, no less!) as an "Indy" jacket, and clearly just don't see the glaring differences....

Re; the issue of "who makes the most authentic repro A2" (after all, that does seem to be what most of the arguing is about)....those of you who have not had the opportunity to sample what some of todays manufacturers are offering are at a disadvantage.
Many folks who have had that opportunity will tell you there are definite differences out there...and they have their preferences.
Some names pop up more frequently than others.
It is what it is.

That's the great thing about the market, IMO - plenty of options for great A2 style jackets from the 'made to spec' house options right up to the very detailed contract repros. Something for everyone.

And when it comes to A2 jackets, one really must ask what are the desired characteristics. Originals weren't scrutinized like the repros are today. Some materials (knits) in originals wore out fast. Zippers failed then as they do now. For me, it is the balance of having a practical jacket that captures the essence of the wartime A2 which I can wear for years, contrasted with tendencies to be a purist and have a perfectly executed copy of an imperfect original which is going to need repairs or parts replaced in a lesser amount of time. If they weren't so costly I'd have several different ones and wear them until they disintegrate, but being that these are almost as much of an investment as they are a garment, the choices become more difficult. Sadly the usual answer to the question "Who makes the best A2" is answered by people stating which ones they bought. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all. The wrinkles and coarse grain which some despise are adored by others. Same goes for the knits and other details.

Absolutely. It's easy to forget sometimes just how much variation there was in grain / contract details / fit, etc, particularly during wartime production. Yet all made to the same army spec. I'm sure there were more than a few minor flaws ignored when it hit wartime production, providing they were cosmetic. And that's before you get to the individual people who wore them and how much they varied. Funny how persistent is the myth of "correct" fit, though, despite all the photographic evidence!

Edward....your "Private Message" box is full.

Cleared now - fire away!

Well, as much as I tried, I could not resist this one much longer. Lots of talk here, but little in the way of detail, except for the usual "not accurate, lame hides, shoddy construction, wrong zippers" compared to X & Y.

[/QUOTE]

Good to see you about.... we're pretty much in agreement on this all.

As for historic accuracy, I'd expect that the pattern will be tweaked to make the actors look good, and not represent a typical fit for the 1940s...

Absolutely, they'll be as tweaked and tailored and cherry-picked as Macathur's A2 - if not moreso.

The Blade Runner sequel / prequel / reboot is still on, apparently. There's talk of it having a rural setting. Could be interesting.

Cool - I'm keeping an open mind. I actually seem to be one of the very few who actually like Prometheus, even if it wasn't as good as Alien. Still knocked Alien v Predator into a cocked hoop. Mind you, so does a kick in the teeth.

According to the Quartermaster stocklists etc, these were ordered, stocked, and issued in even chest sizes from 32 to 54. 30-1415-32 was for size 32, 30-1415-44 was size 44, etc. Most likely if you needed one shorter, a unit tailor might shorten the sleeves, and if you needed a taller one then they would issue you a larger size so the shoulders would hang lower and result in longer length to reach closer to the hand.

There were private purchase A2's for those who could afford it and/or those who were on the extreme fringes of the issue size spectrum.

And there are those who have observed originals and noted different lengths - but if this was intentional or not on the part of the manufacturer, I can only speculate. The jackets were not tagged as being long or short.

Yes, so many variables, and once you add pp into the mix, it really opens up the field.

 

[Sloan1874]

[/QUOTE] I actually seem to be one of the very few who actually like Prometheus, even if it wasn't as good as Alien. Still knocked Alien v Predator into a cocked hoop. Mind you, so does a kick in the teeth.[/QUOTE]

I rather enjoyed it too. I found the negative reaction slightly odd, though I've watched the DVD outtakes and they did nothing to help me on the slight '?' moments I had. I will have to wait for the sequel to get the answers, but I still thought it had ambition and scale that made it extremely watchable.

As far as the A-2 goes, I think you crystalised the argument: it's horses for courses, and while the differences are small, the jackets appear to quite separate types of customer. Neither types are 'wrong' per se, but, like so much of life, it would seem to be a case that you can't point to the mote in the eye of one guy's A-2 without having someone point right back at the beam that's in your own.

Just to take us back to where we came in, the Monument's Men story was, as I've said, a light and interesting good news story about a small Scottish company, that many of us are huge fans of, doing well - nothing more, nothing less. I am amazed at the amount of heat and light that it's generated.

 

[majormajor]

The fact that some people seem to think that waist bands that stretch out more readily are somehow superior to those that don't because it's more 'accurate' - as appears to be the case with Eastman's - seems bizarre to me. If I pay upwards of £400 for a jacket, I don't want built-in obsolescence.

It is indeed odd.

I have a great deal of respect for Gary Eastman. And his new book does indeed show a number of 65 year old jackets with saggy knits.

But is that what we want to buy?

Surely, we want a replica of the jackets as they were back in WW2 - without saggy knits!!

Of all the repro A2s I've owned, I reckon the fit AND the hide of the Eastmans were the best.

(I'm sure Goodwears are just as good, but distance, waiting time and cost put me off)

But I sold them because of the rubbish knits.

I did toy with taking them to Aero to be re-knitted, but I figured that it was too cheeky to ask.

In retrospect, I wish I had done.

In double restrospect, I wish Eastman would see sense and ditch their "5 minute" knits:eeek:

 

[omarco]

^^ had mine for a while and given it a fair bit of stick.. the knits are still perfect.

 

[Sloan1874]

Maybe it comes down to sizing. If you get one that's very tight, to try and get that period fit, I suppose it'll stretch out eventually. Why not ask Major Major what he did to his?

 

[Jeff M]

interesting comments , as regards vlj forums i am a reject , thank bill french ..they kept dropping my username and password , so i complained to himself ... and guess what i cant log on or contact them ,like i said before cheers bill ...

I just checked..you are still listed as a member at the VLJ..and I sent you a PM there without problems.
You sure there isn't just some kind of glitch with the forum/getting in touch with the moderators?

 

[Jeff M]

Maybe it comes down to sizing. If you get one that's very tight, to try and get that period fit, I suppose it'll stretch out eventually. Why not ask Major Major what he did to his?

I'm still not sure what the "period fit" is for an A2.
Looking at photos from WW2, you see all different kinds of "fits"...often pretty bad.
If somebody were to post a picture of themselves wearing a new A2 with some of the fits you see in those old photos, they'd be inundated with "I'd return it. WAY too long/short/baggy/tight/arms too long/arms too short" replies.""
Just finished a good "Teaching Company" series on the "History of WW2; A Military and Social History" by University of Pennsylvania history professor Thomas Childers.
One section dealt with the subject of the American GI, the American "Citizens Army", the changes American recruits went through going from a civilian world to a military one.
Childers notes that a common refrain at the time re; military issued clothing was "doesn't anything ever fit?"

My experience with A2's..indeed, all leather jackets.... it they don't "stretch" much to fit....if at all.
They will mold themselves to your body, but if they are small across a region (generally the shoulders/arm pits/ chest and back with A2's) they will tend to stay that way.

There is a good discussion over at (dare I say it) the VLJ about "The Sizing Issue Myth".
Basically some who feel a size 40 A2 made back in the 1940s' is still a size 40 today, others who note there has been a significant change i body proportions since WW2...with more muscle mass across the chest/back today as compared to back then when a size 40 was more bone than muscle.
That, and GI's wearing those original A2's were the coming out of the depression, less well nourished, coming out of boot camp and "military fit" as opposed to the 40 + year old sedentary folks who have the discretionary income available to purchase a high price "reproduction" jacket.

My bottom line is...if it fits, it fits.
If it doesn't, it doesn't. Even if it is "supposed to" according to the size listed on the label.

 

[Sloan1874]

I meant the knits being stretched around a midriff that could do with, um, a bit more cloth , rather than the leather. But I take your point: if it fits, it fits, the size on the label is irrelevant.

 

[Fanch]

I meant the knits being stretched around a midriff that could do with, um, a bit more cloth , rather than the leather. But I take your point: if it fits, it fits, the size on the label is irrelevant.

I agree completely with your earlier statement regarding knits. Perhaps the original WW II issue knits were thin and loose, but that is not my preference now. I am more than willing to have an A-2 that embodies the spirit of what was made at that time without the foibles. However, I certainly don't take exception to others who want more or less exact duplication of the original issue, and always look with interest when their jackets are posted.

 

[Sloan1874]

I wish people were posting more pictures of their jackets here, no matter the perceived curated accuracy, tbh. There seems to have been a paucity of them at the moment. Perhaps it's just the post-Xmas blues...

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Here's my first Aero HH jacket from years ago. Russet 'Real Deal' A2.
Surely it would ruin a movie and the disgusted would leave in droves...

 

[Fanch]

Here's my first Aero HH jacket from years ago. Russet 'Real Deal' A2.
Surely it would ruin a movie and the disgusted would leave in droves...

HD, we need a picture with better resolution so that we can better determine the number of stitches per centimeter and the relative thickness of the knits. On a more serious note, is your "real deal" your usual size 42 or a 44?

 

[Foster]

This is my Aero made Bronco soon after I received it five years ago.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v486/thumpersean/USAAF/a2-04.jpg