Aero options balancing strong grain and good longevity

[l'oreille]

I'll take the heavy grain any day.

Likewise! And to be clear, my question really was aimed at finding an Aero offering that most closely would approximate this.

 

[Zoro]

Dunno about Venetian, but Saphir is very easy to find in Europe. Even found a dealer in Estonia! As I'll be getting a pair of CXL boots soon to match my CXL jacket I might grab some of this "Crème Cuir Gras" stuff.

Yes, Saphir is French so it's very easy to find, both online and in small shops, even in little towns.

I have a little Venetian Shoe Cream bottle that I bought in a work trip to US though, as I had read that Saphir gives a shinier look and I'm not keen on that.

 

[l'oreille]

The primary reason for this is climate, not tanning. Japan with its subtropical (and tropical) climate isn't healthy for leather so humidity and salt is what is destroying those jackets, not the way they were tanned.

Horween's Chromexcel tanning method is, in general, very durable but it is also very susceptible to climate due several reasons I won't get into right now. But Aero's jackets that stayed in the UK, especially Scotland, never display this kind of degradation.

If you're living in a country with a mild climate, you have nothing to worry about. If not, some other leather might be a better choice.

Interesting! I’ve never considered that that would be a possibility, especially given the amount of care I’ve seen in Japan when it comes down to things like “the right way to clean and polish shoes”.

Maybe I’ll do a deep dive and try find some examples of old CXL jackets online that are in a milder climate (as I’m in Belgium, there’s barely any difference with the UK climate anyway).

 

[MrProper]

But Aero's jackets that stayed in the UK, especially Scotland, never display this kind of degradation.

I had my CXFQHH for around 12 or 13 years. I inspected it carefully before selling it and didn't notice anything like that.
I'm not going to worry about my CXSH either.

 

[Aloysius]

Dunno about Venetian, but Saphir is very easy to find in Europe. Even found a dealer in Estonia! As I'll be getting a pair of CXL boots soon to match my CXL jacket I might grab some of this "Crème Cuir Gras" stuff.

Zoro was referring to Venetian. Saphir is European.

Interesting! I’ve never considered that that would be a possibility, especially given the amount of care I’ve seen in Japan when it comes down to things like “the right way to clean and polish shoes”.

It's the climate. Like how classic cars just do better in California even if well maintained in wetter states.

 

[Marc mndt]

The primary reason for this is climate, not tanning.

Maybe it's a combination of tanning and climate?

You know I've handled a ton of vintage leather jackets in Japan. I didn't get the impression that jackets deteriorated faster in general over there.

 

[Monitor]

Maybe it's a combination of tanning and climate?

It is. I had this really informative talk about leather with a person who works at a tannery in Italy (met them through Poell server) and to vastly simplify things - Not by choice but by need because full, technical explanation went way over my head - several ingredients that the Horween's CXL tanning method consists of, decompose faster in humid, warm and salty climate than they would in, say, the UK or German weather which, in turn, acts as a cascade and accelerates the degradation of the leather.

It's wax, I think but I'm not sure but that's why applying conditioner on an already crusty jacket doesn't do nothing.

The more basic the chrome tanning, the longer will the jacket live so basically, many jackets will still live a long, happy life in Japan, as they do, especially if kept safe but leather in general has a shorter life-span in Japan.

My Kendo teacher had to replace all the leather parts of his katana three times as often whilst training in Japan and leather straps, belts, etc. just weren't viable.

Another example are all those sicc fadezzz on jeans that all turn up on guys from tropical countries, who wore their denims for three months, only on Sundays, on the way to church while Joe from North Dakota had to use Eyedropper tool in Photoshop to finally realize how his jeans stopped being a perfect indigo after 4 years of daily (and nightly) wear.

 

[Marc mndt]

those sicc fadezzz on jeans that all turn up on guys from tropical countries, who wore their denims for three months, only on Sundays, on the way to church

I thought that was accomplished by a thing called sandpaper lol.

 

[Monitor]

I thought that was accomplished by a thing called sandpaper lol.

Well... That helps, too.

 

[Guppy]

However, I've handled so, so much CXL (both jackets and boots) over the years (especially thrifting in Japan), and I've noticed how it sometimes just straight up falls apart after some time. CXL appears to look great and healthy - until it doesn't, and the leather just crumples. I'm not talking about surface cracking: I remember handling a lovely black CXL 30s HB in Tokyo where the top of the sleeves (right at the upper arm) had holes in them, with leather fibers just spilling out - almost like wool that is moth bitten. It didn't look like a motorcycle spill either: the leather was dry and felt like a piece of crumpled paper.

I have no idea why CXL does this after a long time, but I've seen it often enough to be terrified of it happening.

I have personally handled a pretty large number of leather jackets over the past 15 years. Probably 25+ Aero jackets have passed through my hands, most of them purchased secondhand, including from sellers in Japan.

I have seen deteriorated leather jackets being sold by Japanese sellers just as you describe, with cracked or deteriorating leather. They are easy to spot and therefore easy to avoid if you look at the photos, and they tend to be priced around $200 which even at that price it's best to avoid such damage, because those jackets are basically ruined.

As far as what causes it, I have no idea. I have handled a lot of older Aero jackets made from CXL that are going strong at 20-30 years old. My oldest Aero that was purchased from new was I think in 2014, so about 10 years old, and I haven't needed to treat it yet, and it has no problems. I can't tell you the history of the jackets that I bought secondhand, obviously, but most of them haven't needed conditioning since I took ownership of them, and haven't shown evidence of this type of deterioration.

So I know that it CAN happen, but I don't know WHY. My guess would be along the lines of what Monitor was suggesting, that it has to do with climate or storage conditions, maybe salty humid air has something to do with it. I live on the shores of Lake Erie, so we have a lot of humid air but not salty. Speculating, it might be more likely that the damage is caused by the leather being wet (rather than simply in humid salty air) regularly, and not properly dried out. I would imagine if worn in the rain a lot, especially when in a state of needing to be conditioned with wax to keep it waterproof, that could probably do it. But CXL is so stuffed with waxes and oils that it typically goes many years before needing anything. Aero themselves say maybe after 25 years. So I wouldn't recommend over-conditioning it to prevent problems. Overconditioning can cause problems, too. And in fact could possibly be another hypothetical explanation for what we're talking about.

I don't really worry about these problems, I just buy and enjoy what I like. I wouldn't hesitate (and haven't) to buy a CXL leather jacket and wear the hell out of it. Just avoid the used ones that look like they have this issue.

 

[Canuck Panda]

The oldest CXL jacket I have is about 7 years old now and there is no issue.

However I have seen very poor conditioned ones from Japan, they are always marked "C" or "D" condition and they're usually really cheap. Stay away from these, I don't know what happened to them. You can always tell if a jacket is well cared for by the condition of the lining. This one sucks.

Stay with the conditions "B" or above, they're usually just a bit more, but much better condition, no rot no cracks, good lining.

There are tons to pick from, they're plenty jackets on any used market platform,

My advise for scrotum grain is to get CXL FQHH and age it yourself at home, like I did. Machine wash, Hot tumble dry with two wool balls for 15, hang dry the rest of the way. They will survive with nothing other than more grains. Although sometimes they refuse to budge too, I have those too.

Home made grainy CXL FQHH using the above method, jacket is about 5 years old now and no issues,

I applied the same method to this CXL FQHH but it is still not budging,

So with FQHH there is always gonna be a wide variance, I will check back in another 7 to ten years. These two are definitely keepers for me, I am thinking of updating the half belt pattern a bit though.

Here is what a CXL FQHH jacket in the same shade would look like brand new before my house special treatment,

For used jackets stay away from the poor condition ones.

 

[zebedee]

I live in Hong Kong where there is often significant humidity. Aeros at 17 years old and 6-10 years old have shown no rot or degradation. During the daytime we don't run the air-conditioning that much, but it tends to be on at night. As long as they're hung up and aired, no problem with any leather items. Same with leather shoes and boots on open shelves One wipe-down with Renapur every 18 months or so. I leave cupboards open: I think dark and humid might have told a different story.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I don't think any of Aero's leathers really replicate the look of original jackets having owned and handled many myself. I'd just go with Badalassi because I think it's by far their best leather in terms of color, grain, and aging.

 

[Aloysius]

I don't think any of Aero's leathers really replicate the look of original jackets having owned and handled many myself. I'd just go with Badalassi because I think it's by far their best leather in terms of color, grain, and aging.

I think there are some that do but they're not usually the ones popular with TFLers, maybe because a lot of us are also into shoes and boots so we gravitate to the tanneries we know from that world.

The jerky feels very close in temper to my 30s-50s original horsehides, but it's not quite beefy enough for TFL tastes. I can say for myself that the stupid name (given to it not by Aero but by their American dealer long ago) kept me from considering it. The goat is another one like that; really similar hand and luster to my 1940s American goat jackets.

The shearlings are all as good as it gets but that's inherently a different type of garment than cow/horse/goat hide jackets so they're in their own space.

On the flip side I find Badalassi absolutely stunning but I can't help but feel it's not really a garment leather, much like CXL in that regard. Aero's drapes better than most, simply because they have it skived and reprocessed, but it still has this stiff quality to it. (It's interesting to think about this because I think I would have felt very differently about all the above hides just a few years ago.)

 

[cbez]

I don't think the leather destruction thing holds water. It's probably a 0.5% defect rate or something. Sometimes they hang in store windows etc and get sun damage. Or get heavy motorcycle use and abrasion. But you can find ragged out beef jerkies in the US too.

 

[dudewuttheheck]

I think there are some that do but they're not usually the ones popular with TFLers, maybe because a lot of us are also into shoes and boots so we gravitate to the tanneries we know from that world.

The jerky feels very close in temper to my 30s-50s original horsehides, but it's not quite beefy enough for TFL tastes. I can say for myself that the stupid name (given to it not by Aero but by their American dealer long ago) kept me from considering it. The goat is another one like that; really similar hand and luster to my 1940s American goat jackets.

The shearlings are all as good as it gets but that's inherently a different type of garment than cow/horse/goat hide jackets so they're in their own space.

On the flip side I find Badalassi absolutely stunning but I can't help but feel it's not really a garment leather, much like CXL in that regard. Aero's drapes better than most, simply because they have it skived and reprocessed, but it still has this stiff quality to it. (It's interesting to think about this because I think I would have felt very differently about all the above hides just a few years ago.)

I forgot about their Goat. That's a good option. Yeah the Badalassi is definitely not a garments leather. I'd like to see the tannery really work at making something for jackets. It would probably be great.

 

[zebedee]

I found Badalassi to be good - it's lighter than FQHH and fairly pliable. It doesn't squeak too much after breaking in and looks great with a bit of wear on it.

Aero's goat is the most 'practical' of their offerings, IMHO.

 

[MickeyPunch]

The oldest CXL jacket I have is about 7 years old now and there is no issue.

However I have seen very poor conditioned ones from Japan, they are always marked "C" or "D" condition and they're usually really cheap. Stay away from these, I don't know what happened to them. You can always tell if a jacket is well cared for by the condition of the lining. This one sucks.
View attachment 660895

Stay with the conditions "B" or above, they're usually just a bit more, but much better condition, no rot no cracks, good lining.
View attachment 660896

There are tons to pick from, they're plenty jackets on any used market platform,
View attachment 660897

My advise for scrotum grain is to get CXL FQHH and age it yourself at home, like I did. Machine wash, Hot tumble dry with two wool balls for 15, hang dry the rest of the way. They will survive with nothing other than more grains. Although sometimes they refuse to budge too, I have those too.

Home made grainy CXL FQHH using the above method, jacket is about 5 years old now and no issues,
View attachment 660898
View attachment 660899

I applied the same method to this CXL FQHH but it is still not budging,
View attachment 660900 View attachment 660901

So with FQHH there is always gonna be a wide variance, I will check back in another 7 to ten years. These two are definitely keepers for me, I am thinking of updating the half belt pattern a bit though.

Here is what a CXL FQHH jacket in the same shade would look like brand new before my house special treatment,
View attachment 660902
View attachment 660903

For used jackets stay away from the poor condition ones.

Canuck: jeez, some japanese guys really suck at taking care of their jackets.

Also Canuck: see? the first thing you have to do with your brand new jacket is to wash and hot tumble dry it.

lol j/k

 

[Canuck Panda]

Canuck: some japanese guys take terrible care of thei

Canuck: jeez, some japanese guys really suck at taking care of their jackets.

Also Canuck: see? the first thing you have to do with your brand new jacket is to wash and hot tumble dry it.

lol j/k

You’re mostly right. That’s why I said I would check back here in 7 to 10 years to see if my washed and tumbled jackets falls apart then, they’re holding strong for the time being. I do have a theory though, but that’s just my guess. The problem jackets online have specific spots for damage, looks like direct heat damage. My young ass has been burnt by hot seats many times. And some people like to pose their jackets with their bikes. Engines do get quite hot. Seats also gets hot if not parked in the shade. But none of this matters now as they’re all just me spewing jibberish. I can wait another 7 to 10 years.

 

[AeroFan_07]

So I have only had 1 instance of an Aero jacket, of any type, that I questioned the integrity of the leather used on it. It was back in late 2015-early 2016, so very early in the FL days. In fact, as I consider it more, I tend to think it was a fake. It was purchased off ebay for fairly cheap and sold along even cheaper. I have no photos of it.

It was a "FQHH" Half belt in black, around a size 44, and it was stiff similar to a piece of thin plywood. The leather itself had very little character or scent, and reminded me a little of a pigskin, however very stiff and almost un-wearable. It was not up to the quality of any other Aero I have owned prior to or since. And of course I had no history on it.

That's the only time I questioned one of these in terms of it's leather quality. Having personally owned ~ 15-20 I feel confident in the product even though I have mode on to other brands now an my preferred jackets.

*On Edit - look like it was January 2016, and was a "46" Deluxe half belt. Here's the only photo I found of it - actually from Page 6 of the "jacket collection" thread.