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Aero Anj4
- Thread starter John Lever
- Start date
Well, a chance to educate yourself: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/aero-trial-narrative.82006/
I couldn't care less what SB are offering: why knowingly give money to people who have attempted to build a business on decades of knowledge and hard work of others? I can say with some certainty that without Aero, you don't have AL or SB, something that doesn't apply to any of the other major makers. Now you might say that's the nature of business, but that's not what the Lounge is really about: people know what AL/SB represent, so the idea that by simply offering cheap versions of Aero's jackets is somehow laudable or justifies its existence doesn't really cut any ice.
I couldn't care less what SB are offering: why knowingly give money to people who have attempted to build a business on decades of knowledge and hard work of others? I can say with some certainty that without Aero, you don't have AL or SB, something that doesn't apply to any of the other major makers. Now you might say that's the nature of business, but that's not what the Lounge is really about: people know what AL/SB represent, so the idea that by simply offering cheap versions of Aero's jackets is somehow laudable or justifies its existence doesn't really cut any ice.
I understand your stance on this whole episode and where you are coming from.
If aero was able to provide me with the exact product I want, I would gladly go with them as they have a good reputation for quality and service.
If the jacket was £100 I'd bite the bullet and accept it has no pockets, but with it being the cost these jackets are, I need it to have certain features for the price. SB are able to provide the product, at my exact want specs, I gotta run with it. If I was after a repro, maybe I would shop elsewhere.
I never knew anything about the jackets all that much until I came across this forum and reading up on the different styles.
Maybe I am naive, but if you modded these jackets, only hobbyists would identify what you did. The actual jacket as a whole based on quality and original specs shouldn't be hindered in theory when evaluating it? For example, stitching, small details etc.
If I had an exact replica of a vintage classic car say, but put modern alloys on it, of course people would know the wheels aren't accurate. The car itself when looked over though by a hobbyist/expert, down to the most microscopic detail should be judged on that itself, in my thinking.
The jacket I want just happens to be a RAF jacket, happens to be a jacket with historical reference. I don't have a vested interest in this hobby per se and the actions of companies a few years back is business politics in my mind, regardless of my opinion on the matter, which I will keep to myself.
If your the only company pretty much that will accomodate a customer when other's can't or won't, you end up with a customer.
Back to the ANJ-4, I'll see how wearable my jacket ends up being through the winter, as a guide to whether or not I can justify the B3 or ANJ-4.
If aero was able to provide me with the exact product I want, I would gladly go with them as they have a good reputation for quality and service.
If the jacket was £100 I'd bite the bullet and accept it has no pockets, but with it being the cost these jackets are, I need it to have certain features for the price. SB are able to provide the product, at my exact want specs, I gotta run with it. If I was after a repro, maybe I would shop elsewhere.
I never knew anything about the jackets all that much until I came across this forum and reading up on the different styles.
Maybe I am naive, but if you modded these jackets, only hobbyists would identify what you did. The actual jacket as a whole based on quality and original specs shouldn't be hindered in theory when evaluating it? For example, stitching, small details etc.
If I had an exact replica of a vintage classic car say, but put modern alloys on it, of course people would know the wheels aren't accurate. The car itself when looked over though by a hobbyist/expert, down to the most microscopic detail should be judged on that itself, in my thinking.
The jacket I want just happens to be a RAF jacket, happens to be a jacket with historical reference. I don't have a vested interest in this hobby per se and the actions of companies a few years back is business politics in my mind, regardless of my opinion on the matter, which I will keep to myself.
If your the only company pretty much that will accomodate a customer when other's can't or won't, you end up with a customer.
Back to the ANJ-4, I'll see how wearable my jacket ends up being through the winter, as a guide to whether or not I can justify the B3 or ANJ-4.
The main difference between the ANJ-4 and B3 is that the former is longer and the sleeves modified to make it easier to move the arms. You get two types of ANJ-4: long zip or short and buttoned bottom. The latter makes it easier to sit down when you're wearing it, the former looks a bit more elegant to me.
The Irvins I've seen with pockets don't look anywhere near as good as the original, but YMMV. In purely practical terms, SB's Irvin shearling is similar to Aero's old stuff (for obvious reasons) and is tbh too thick. The sleeves will exacerbate this feature - you'll have approximately two inches of wool wedged under your armpits, so don't be surprised if you find yourself having to change your t shirts with greater frequency!
I can wear my Irvin from late September through to late March because the design is flexible and the sheepskin pile less dense. ANJ-4s are a November to February jacket in the UK, or at least up in Scotland!
The Irvins I've seen with pockets don't look anywhere near as good as the original, but YMMV. In purely practical terms, SB's Irvin shearling is similar to Aero's old stuff (for obvious reasons) and is tbh too thick. The sleeves will exacerbate this feature - you'll have approximately two inches of wool wedged under your armpits, so don't be surprised if you find yourself having to change your t shirts with greater frequency!
I can wear my Irvin from late September through to late March because the design is flexible and the sheepskin pile less dense. ANJ-4s are a November to February jacket in the UK, or at least up in Scotland!
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Oh ok, I will be sure to look into the long zip or button version should I end up buying one. The jacket looks like a shield from wind and cold. I love the colour of your ANJ-4. Is that still the current aero offering?
Do you treat your jacket with a waterproofing product sloan? I would think these flight jackets would be ok if caught in a shower regardless?
Do you treat your jacket with a waterproofing product sloan? I would think these flight jackets would be ok if caught in a shower regardless?
Aero offer ANJ-4s in seal and redskin - you can vary the colour and type of leather on the panels. I don't use any waterproofing as the shell is pretty shower resistant in its own right, if it's raining I tend flip the collar up and buckle it, which protects the sheepskin. I've never really had massive issues with it getting wet, though if it's raining when I'm heading out, I tend to throw on my FQHH half-belt with a heavy jumper under it.
dubpynchon
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This is a Simmons Bilt Irvin I bought last year. I returned it and sold it on on their outlet page. As you can see the pattern differs from any of the repro manufacturers. I had asked for an extra inch in body length but SB's pattern would seem to have a few inches added already. It was also rather tubular and tight across the chest. Hey, it had pockets!
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dubpynchon
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It's working now.
dubpynchon
One Too Many
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I thought it was rubbish myself. Too long, too tight and one inch sheepskin which is far too warm unless you live in the arctic circle. In fairness, they did make me a very nice cafe racer last year but I suppose there they were sticking to the patterns that had been stolen from Aero.
Well, in fairness im probably going to go with 18 mm sheepskin, should be a good compromise between warmth and aesthetics.
That's the reason I want to go to the factory to actually try on these jackets to make sure im happy with the look and fit before dropping the £700+. With the sheepskin I think it would be more difficult to get an accurate measurement for what I need. Like im a 42 inch chest, my suit jackets are 42 but with a coat full of thick fur, im not sure how that will pass over.
What chest size did you order bud?
That's the reason I want to go to the factory to actually try on these jackets to make sure im happy with the look and fit before dropping the £700+. With the sheepskin I think it would be more difficult to get an accurate measurement for what I need. Like im a 42 inch chest, my suit jackets are 42 but with a coat full of thick fur, im not sure how that will pass over.
What chest size did you order bud?
dubpynchon
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44, my normal chest size. I would strong advise against ordering with Simmons Bilt, apart from the fact that you're dealing with a company that was based on the theft of actual and intellectual property, their sheepskin jackets are simply not on a par with any of the other top manufacturers, Eastman or Aero in the UK. For slightly more money you can get a jacket from Aero which will be vastly superior.
Cooper A-2
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hello all,
maybe I flogged a few pages.
Checking all quality AN-J-4 available on the market, I found Aero, plus two other fitst class makers...But.. but.. the low end zipper shown on the Aero website is all ...but loooooookkkkkiiiingggg " authentic".
John lev. prised by Aero as the best and we are sure he is, but John...please revert on this...hope you are with us and not travelling..please revert on this...
For the sake of authenticity...is this ( Aero) AN-J-4 Jacket zipper as is shouuld be.?
Dumb sorry question...but if you invest approx 900 Euro or more...maybe a tiny details but it counts ...if you want a ww2 accurate repro...at least for thr $$$€€£££ you pay..
Aeroleather markmanshift is amongst the finest...but the metalware shown on their website is not so convincing...the same applies for the labeling of their A-2 42-1512-P. Label tag, and size label are out of dimension if compared to the WW2 originals.
KEN ALREADY AREED TO PUT THE NEW GENERATION GW LABELS ON THE NEW JACKETS.
Still the zippers low end box worries me...
Cheers and have a lot of fun in summer vacation..
maybe I flogged a few pages.
Checking all quality AN-J-4 available on the market, I found Aero, plus two other fitst class makers...But.. but.. the low end zipper shown on the Aero website is all ...but loooooookkkkkiiiingggg " authentic".
John lev. prised by Aero as the best and we are sure he is, but John...please revert on this...hope you are with us and not travelling..please revert on this...
For the sake of authenticity...is this ( Aero) AN-J-4 Jacket zipper as is shouuld be.?
Dumb sorry question...but if you invest approx 900 Euro or more...maybe a tiny details but it counts ...if you want a ww2 accurate repro...at least for thr $$$€€£££ you pay..
Aeroleather markmanshift is amongst the finest...but the metalware shown on their website is not so convincing...the same applies for the labeling of their A-2 42-1512-P. Label tag, and size label are out of dimension if compared to the WW2 originals.
KEN ALREADY AREED TO PUT THE NEW GENERATION GW LABELS ON THE NEW JACKETS.
Still the zippers low end box worries me...
Cheers and have a lot of fun in summer vacation..
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Cooper A-2
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Any expert on the most accurate AN-J-4?
Please advise on leather craftmanship ( Aero is great on this) buttons, zip , tag , label etc...
Best so far is from GW, John Chap...
Happy to receive your opinions
Please advise on leather craftmanship ( Aero is great on this) buttons, zip , tag , label etc...
Best so far is from GW, John Chap...
Happy to receive your opinions
I can only say that Aero have their own archive of ANJ-4s as reference for the refreshing of the patterns and details, and the one I tried on, a navy-issued ANJ-4 with seal goat panels, was a faithful repro in terms of buttons and the riveted zip base.
Tbh, the label is not in an immediately obvious place, it's on the lower left panel rather than at the collar, so I can remember comparing them.
Personally, given that John has handled more of these jackets from different makers, I would be likely to take his word on the level of accuracy of Aero's jacket.
Tbh, the label is not in an immediately obvious place, it's on the lower left panel rather than at the collar, so I can remember comparing them.
Personally, given that John has handled more of these jackets from different makers, I would be likely to take his word on the level of accuracy of Aero's jacket.
dubpynchon
One Too Many
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I think SB have added length to all the patterns that were stolen from Aero. The adherence to the original patterns is what makes Aero's, Eastman's, Lost Worlds's etc product so good, if you start chopping and changing the originals to better suit the modern customer it all becomes a bit ridiculous. The SB Irvin is the perfect example, originally a short jacket they've made it way too long to try to 'modernise' it, and destroyed what made it special in the first place.
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