Advice Please - Stretching 1950’s Stetson 7 x Clear Beaver

[kenbid]

somecGuidance Please

A 1950’s Stetson 7x Clear Beaver. Super Condition

Need to bring it up 1/2 to 1 size larger

Unsure how easy these are to stretch

Can I just stretch it, does it need steam also?
Do these older Holy Grail hats from 50’s have that plastic filament line inside to help hat keep it’s shape like more modern hats have. If so is cutting this plastic line suggested? They can be hard to get to.

Second Question - a very early rands western. Am told from around late eighties which is probably not true since I believe Rands started in circa 1993. I am assuming beaver. Like to stretch this 1/2 to 1 size also. Any suggestions as to how to do this? Anyone know if Rands puts the plastic line inside their hats back then or later.

Rumor Confirmation Request Please - I read that Rands and O’Farrel both buy beaver blanks direct and thus make their own beaver felt. If true this would enable them to make superior beavers. Rands and O’farrell websites do not provide any info on their beaver felt to ascertain if this is truth. There are a lot of people who love Rands but could just be rumors and reputation. Other thing is maybe 25 years ago they did this but not presently.

Thanks for any help

Ken

 

[glider]

To properly stretch those hats they will need to be disassembled and put on a block. not a simple or easy procedure. Those hat jacks are good if you just need a bit of a stretch but they distort the crown if you try to go very far. So, the simple answer is, sure they can be stretched. My advise would be to either find a hatter to do the work or sell the hats and get hats that fit. I'm certainly no expert but I have tried this myself. Having a hatter rebuild these hats isn't a bad idea if you really like the felt

 

[Rmccamey]

Do these older Holy Grail hats from 50’s have that plastic filament line inside to help hat keep it’s shape like more modern hats have. If so is cutting this plastic line suggested? They can be hard to get to.

Pictures would be helpful. As mentioned, stretching can be tricky. A spritz of water and steam on the outside can help and you can usually get 1/2 size stretch with a basic hat jack, just tighten slowly over a few days. Do not put steam on the liner or sweatband as bad things can happen quickly! I would also caution against cutting anything as you could easily destroy the integrity of the hat.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

somecGuidance Please

A 1950’s Stetson 7x Clear Beaver. Super Condition

Need to bring it up 1/2 to 1 size larger

Unsure how easy these are to stretch

Can I just stretch it, does it need steam also?
Do these older Holy Grail hats from 50’s have that plastic filament line inside to help hat keep it’s shape like more modern hats have. If so is cutting this plastic line suggested? They can be hard to get to.

Second Question - a very early rands western. Am told from around late eighties which is probably not true since I believe Rands started in circa 1993. I am assuming beaver. Like to stretch this 1/2 to 1 size also. Any suggestions as to how to do this? Anyone know if Rands puts the plastic line inside their hats back then or later.

Rumor Confirmation Request Please - I read that Rands and O’Farrel both buy beaver blanks direct and thus make their own beaver felt. If true this would enable them to make superior beavers. Rands and O’farrell websites do not provide any info on their beaver felt to ascertain if this is truth. There are a lot of people who love Rands but could just be rumors and reputation. Other thing is maybe 25 years ago they did this but not presently.

Thanks for any help

Ken

I’ve ruined or damaged a few hats attempting to stretch them. I no longer do it. I’ll bump the hat a fraction of size of make take a standard oval to a bit more of a long oval, but that’s it. If you’re set on stretching them, send them to a hatter and have it done right, but know that most will need a new sweatband to fit the then larger hat. @Randall Renshaw has a way of stretching the sweatbands to reuse the originals. In any case, the hat will need to be stripped down to the felt and then reblocked. The extra diameter has to come from somewhere so expect the crown to be shorter or the brim to lose width; although, one size shouldn’t be drastic.

Do not cut the reed in the sweatband. At least I wouldn’t.

Based on the color options etc. I believe that Rand’s and O’Farrell use felt made by one of the big felters and they do felt their own fur.

 

[belfastboy]

To properly stretch those hats they will need to be disassembled and put on a block. not a simple or easy procedure. Those hat jacks are good if you just need a bit of a stretch but they distort the crown if you try to go very far. So, the simple answer is, sure they can be stretched. My advise would be to either find a hatter to do the work or sell the hats and get hats that fit. I'm certainly no expert but I have tried this myself. Having a hatter rebuild these hats isn't a bad idea if you really like the felt

Glider gives very good advice. Send them to a hatter to be resized or sell and start over. To attempt to stretch even 1/2 size you are opening the door to grief: at best disappointing results and at worst you permanently distort the hat.

 

[belfastboy]

I’ve ruined or damaged a few hats attempting to stretch them. I no longer do it. I’ll bump the hat a fraction of size of mane take a standard oval to a long oval, but that’s it. If you’re set on stretching them, send them to a hatter and have it done right, but know that most will need a new sweatband to fit the then larger hat. @Randall Renshaw has a way of stretching the sweatbands to reuse the originals. In any case, the hat will need to be stripped brown to list the felt and then reblocked. The extra diameter has to come from somewhere so expect the crown to be shorter or the brim to lose width; although, one size shouldn’t be drastic.

Do not cut the reed in the sweatband. At least I wouldn’t.

Based on the color options etc. I believe that Rand’s and O’Farrell use felt made by one of the big felters and they do felt their own fur.

Deadly gives very good advice based on much experience not theory. If I am resizing upwards/refurbishing a vintage hat I will offer the customer to save the original sweat band so it retains that provenance (although it does diminish its resale value if a grail hat) I insert a matching piece of sweat band leather to accommodate the upsize.

Turning beaver felts into completed felt blanks for hatting is an involved process that requires expensive machinery. A relatively small hatter like Rands (or multitudes of others) would not make their own felt products. There are very very few felt manufacturers left in the world with only ONE in the USA. Four that I know of in Europe and perhaps a few in S America.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

somecGuidance Please

A 1950’s Stetson 7x Clear Beaver. Super Condition

Need to bring it up 1/2 to 1 size larger

Unsure how easy these are to stretch

Can I just stretch it, does it need steam also?
Do these older Holy Grail hats from 50’s have that plastic filament line inside to help hat keep it’s shape like more modern hats have. If so is cutting this plastic line suggested? They can be hard to get to.

Second Question - a very early rands western. Am told from around late eighties which is probably not true since I believe Rands started in circa 1993. I am assuming beaver. Like to stretch this 1/2 to 1 size also. Any suggestions as to how to do this? Anyone know if Rands puts the plastic line inside their hats back then or later.

Rumor Confirmation Request Please - I read that Rands and O’Farrel both buy beaver blanks direct and thus make their own beaver felt. If true this would enable them to make superior beavers. Rands and O’farrell websites do not provide any info on their beaver felt to ascertain if this is truth. There are a lot of people who love Rands but could just be rumors and reputation. Other thing is maybe 25 years ago they did this but not presently.

Thanks for any help

Ken

“A 50’s Stetson 7X Clear Beaver Super Condition”.
Put it in the classifieds for a trade in your size.
That way two people will be happy, two hats will be preserved and you’ll save tears and torment from trying to go up 1/2-1 size which rarely (never) ends well.
So many things can go wrong and only one chance of going right.
The odds are against you. We’re all lucky stretching….until we aren’t. Sobs
You asked…that’s my sad experiences.
B

 

[suitedcboy]

I agree. Stretching too often has the side effect of changing brim shape permanently. I have tried stretching and also just changing the ovality and I have several hats that I can't get brim shape anywhere near to my liking. The crown might get taper from stretching and it may may change the look of the hat on your head in a way that you do not like.

 

[One Drop]

I'm of the possibly controversial opinion that these very fine hats that have survived the decades since manufacture should not be tampered with as a matter of principle - at least if they are stil available in the correct size for you. With patience and time you'll find the same hat in your size, leave these beauties alone to be discovered by those with the right sized heads.

As Bob Marley sang, albeit with an entirely different meaning : Who the cap fit, let them wear it.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

I'm of the possibly controversial opinion that these very fine hats that have survived the decades since manufacture should not be tampered with as a matter of principle - at least if they are stil available in the correct size for you. With patience and time you'll find the same hat in your size, leave these beauties alone to be discovered by those with the right sized heads.

As Bob Marley sang, albeit with an entirely different meaning : Who the cap fit, let them wear it.

Yeah, i danced around that issue because i’m outta popcorn but….hell yeah!!
Wear em and share em
Don’t mod em and rod em
B

 

[Randall Renshaw]

Ditto, to most everything already said.
And I’ll add this: in my experience, most vintage 7X pure beaver western hats don’t like to stretch much and mostly none at all—even when reblocked, especially the mid 50s or later having tons of shellac felt stiffener.
Beaver/rabbit/hare blends stretch a great deal and can be done with no adverse effects—if done by a professional—who has unfortunately ruined a few hats during the learning curve.
Some vintage sweats in great condition can take a dry stretch a half size without distorting the crown or brim, but too many cannot. I can and will do it, but I don’t recommend it for the unskilled and those unaware of the pitfalls. And anyway, to end up with a half size stretch that doesn’t simply shrink back down in a month, one has to stretch the sweatband twice as far, or more, than needed; in which case the band has to be in super supple condition to take the stress.


With complete overhauls including a re-block a full size, and sometimes a two size stretch can be done on mint condition vintage hats without ill effects, but I still don’t recommend it for most iconic hats. It takes a lot of time, skill and labor for a successful upsize and a hatter won’t usually be able to make enough profit from most customers to make it worth their trouble.
I mostly only want to perform it with hats of my own, or for customers I really, really like.
It’s a lot of work!

My bottom line agrees with the others.
Sell those and buy ones that fit.

 

[belfastboy]

Ditto, to most everything already said.
And I’ll add this: in my experience, most vintage 7X pure beaver western hats don’t like to stretch much and mostly none at all—even when reblocked, especially the mid 50s or later having tons of shellac felt stiffener.
Beaver/rabbit/hare blends stretch a great deal and can be done with no adverse effects—if done by a professional—who has unfortunately ruined a few hats during the learning curve.
Some vintage sweats in great condition can take a dry stretch a half size without distorting the crown or brim, but too many cannot. I can and will do it, but I don’t recommend it for the unskilled and those unaware of the pitfalls. And anyway, to end up with a half size stretch that doesn’t simply shrink back down in a month, one has to stretch the sweatband twice as far, or more, than needed; in which case the band has to be in super supple condition to take the stress.


With complete overhauls including a re-block a full size, and sometimes a two size stretch can be done on mint condition vintage hats without ill effects, but I still don’t recommend it for most iconic hats. It takes a lot of time, skill and labor for a successful upsize and a hatter won’t usually be able to make enough profit from most customers to make it worth their trouble.
I mostly only want to perform it with hats of my own, or for customers I really, really like.
It’s a lot of work!

My bottom line agrees with the others.
Sell those and buy ones that fit.

There are so many aspects to consider. One important one is reblocking a regular oval hat a size up as well changing into a long oval blocking. You have to be so very particular to block it evenly to keep the brim dimension equal and when changing to a long oval you will de facto end up with a slightly dimension brim. I would be loathe to do on a hat in great shape. I have no problem tackling it on a hat that is destined for the dustbin and my work is a total refurbishment and salvage attempt. I love the challenge and the satisfaction of saving a great felt and retuning it to wearable condition.
I won't even bother to stretch a hat of my own as my results are so unsatisfying. I would prefer to tear the hat down, do it properly and start from scratch.

 

[Randall Renshaw]

Okay.

 

[kenbid]

solved the problem - I got a hair trimmer and cut my hair very short. Amazing difference. Why was I only one who thought of this. Leave the hat alone and change the head size. I rest my case.

 

[AbbaDatDeHat]

Makes sense.

 

[belfastboy]

solved the problem - I got a hair trimmer and cut my hair very short. Amazing difference. Why was I only one who thought of this. Leave the hat alone and change the head size. I rest my case.

Yes, a hair cut works way better than placing your head in a vice.....that method changes your head shape too drastically. I lay awake at nights in fear of losing my hair and overnight have my hat collection no longer fit!!!

 

[Who?]

Leave the hat alone and change the head size. I rest my case.

I do believe there are still folks in the Amazonian Forests who specialize in that very thing.

 

[belfastboy]

I do believe there are still folks in the Amazonian Forests who specialize in that very thing.

Hmmm, if it might give me a chance to fit into those inexpensive small sized vintage hats..........

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hmmm, if it might give me a chance to fit into those inexpensive small sized vintage hats..........

I don’t know. If I was a 6 ⅞ or some size I’d have 3,000 hats. I’d probably end my days in an avalanche of hats and hat boxes.

 

[MAPip]

solved the problem - I got a hair trimmer and cut my hair very short. Amazing difference. Why was I only one who thought of this. Leave the hat alone and change the head size. I rest my case.

Glad you found a "lean" answer. I was having similar issues with the same hat!

I wonder if my solution would work for you. Mine was a 7 1/8 that I was able to get into a loose 7 1/4 that fits me perfectly. The sweatband is an inverted cone, so it might fit your head at the base but gets too tight toward the top. I removed the sweatband, cut the running stitch at the rear of the sweatband until it fit perfectly on my head, then stitched it back in.

If you ever need reference, I posted a DIY for it yesterday.

Cheers!