Activists or just followers?

[Bebop]

I have always thought that human beings find it much easier to follow blindly than question what they are following. It seems we do that in most aspects of life. From politics to fashion to food. Are you a follower? Or do you stop to think before you follow?

This is a funny snippet that proves my point. lol
youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw&mode=related&search=

 

[Paisley]

I'm reading a book called How Doctors Think by Jerome Groopman, M.D. It's amazing how doctors sometimes make up diagnoses as they go along, or write off patients as hypochondriacs, or miss seeing things on scans and x-rays. Then there are doctors who are in bed with pharmaceutical companies.

Some procedures are more profitable than others. Running tests is more lucrative than consultations with the patient.

Even if the doctor is great, medicine is an inexact science.

Actively participating in diagnosis and treatment, selecting a doctor who listens and believes you, and asking difficult questions could save your life.

 

[Sefton]

Those Hippies didn't have a chance. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[Mocheman]

When I first saw that episode I laughed and laughed. Ah humanity.

 

[Fast]

Folks generally do what they are told by authority. Why do they call 'em authorities? Do they think. Those with grey matter willing to work up a sweat do. Others figure it's easier and probably ok to go along with the program. some are afraid not to do what authority figures tell them, even to the point where they will cause harm to others. There's an old psych study about this.

People tend to wear and eat and buy what their peer group does, hence fashion companies making millions and spending more to discover and create trends. A million jackets are each easier and cheaper to make than one or ten. the problem is, ya gotta sell 'em.

On the other hand, Socrates said, "The unexamined life is not worth living." ( Apology 38a) .

Carpe Diem
Fast

 

[jamespowers]

Those Hippies didn't have a chance. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

Go figure.

 

[Daisy Buchanan]

I'm reading a book called How Doctors Think by Jerome Groopman, M.D. It's amazing how doctors sometimes make up diagnoses as they go along, or write off patients as hypochondriacs, or miss seeing things on scans and x-rays. Then there are doctors who are in bed with pharmaceutical companies.

Some procedures are more profitable than others. Running tests is more lucrative than consultations with the patient.

Even if the doctor is great, medicine is an inexact science.

Actively participating in diagnosis and treatment, selecting a doctor who listens and believes you, and asking difficult questions could save your life.

Very well said:eusa_clap I am so happy that you raise this point, and your last statement couldn't be any more true!!
Having a chronic illness, I have had far too many experiences with such doctors. Most recently I went for a second opinion, and this new doctor totally sold me, making it seem as though he could make my quality of life far better than what my other doctors were doing. I didn't question the fact that my GI doctor of the past 7 years was voted one of the top 10 GI doctors in the country, and he was not. Or that the hospital that my other GI doctor works at has been consistently voted one of the best hospitals in the country for GI disorders and many other ailments, and this other doctors was not. He used a lot of positive words to make me feel like he was the better choice.
I couldn't have been more wrong. Let me just say that I had to go to the ER recently when I was feeling exceptionally sick. I got the worst treatment in that ER, my own GI doc (the new one) didn't once come down to see me, nor did any other GI team, I had a CT scan that was never read by a radiologist nor looked at by a GI doctor, only a 2nd year ER resident, and instead of getting my pain under control (my bp was high, my heart rate fast and I had a fever, all signs of pain) they accused me of drug seeking because they saw on my chart that I take pain killers at home. To make a long story short I ended up taking out my own IV at 4 in the morning and took the 1/2 hour cab ride home. I had said numerous times during my stay there that they weren't helping me with my pain. The amount of pain meds that they were giving me were less than my daily prescribed dose that I take at home. Obviously my home dose wasn't working, that's one of the reasons I went in, so does it make any sense to give me less!!!
Anyway I got home at 4:30am and slept the entire next day. Then the following morning I got up and went to my old hospital, Beth Israel. I called my GI doc and left her a message letting her know I was coming in. I arrived at the ER at 10:30 (this is the best time to go to an ER because the night patient have all just been discharged and the new patients tend not to arrive until noon, just in case you ever have to go) and by 11:00am I was in a small room with an IV and enough pain meds to tranquilize a horse I had an incredible nurse, and not only the residents and attending looked in on my, but my own PCP, GI doc, and surgeons all came in to check on me. I did have to have another CT scan, but that is because my doctors did not like the way the other one came out. They did run every test imaginable, having Crohn's I could have had a number of things going on, but they wanted to make sure that they weren't missing anything. I thank G-d that they did run all of those tests, for each test revealed something that might not have been seen. Turns out I did have something wrong, that this other hospital totally missed. My doctors told me I was lucky to come in when I did for if I had waited just 2 more days I would have definitely had to have emergency surgery.
I got the most incredible care at the Beth Israel. Everyone from the nurses to the nurses assistants, to the interns residents and attendings were all so incredibly thorough. But most of all I let it be known that I am an informed patient. That I am fully involved in all aspects of my health care, and so are my parents. It's so very important to have an advocate who knows your desires, just in case you are not able to express your wishes.
The doctors at the new hospital I thought would be good for me did not like the fact that I was an informed patient, and that believe it or not I did know what was best for me. After living with this illness for so many years, I know it well, and I can usually diagnose what is going on, tests usually confirm my diagnosis, but I know the signs and symptoms of the different problems Crohn's can cause. These new doctors did not want me to open my mouth. When I expressed the slightest bit of disapproval in the way I was being treated, I was treated even worse, as if I was some sort of a trouble maker. At the Beth Israel my doctors, all of them, work with me. They like that I am informed, they treat me with so much respect and they always give me as many treatment options as possible and leave the decision making up to me. They never try to push me towards one thing or another.
I couldn't be happier with this kind of treatment. My PCP who was very pregnant and due any day walked across the hospital campus 2 times a day to check in on me. My Gi doctor who has such a busy practice that she usually works until 9 at night would call me 2 times a day, that is on the days that she couldn't physically come to check on me. The doctors on the floor who were taking care of me checked in on me regularly and were right down the hall if I had any questions or needed to change anything. 3 days after I was discharged the intern whose care I was in while on the floor called to check in and make sure that my new pain meds were working OK. I liked her so much that she is going to take care of me while my PCP is away on maternity leave. I'm her very first patient Lucky her!! But she is the first intern of her class to have a regular patient. She is great and is going to make a wonderful doctor. This is because she is getting the very best of training.
So, if people are followers, sometimes thats OK with me. Especially if they are following the lead of the wonderful doctors I have at the BI.
If you live in MA and are in need of medical care there's no other place to go. I highly recommend it, even if you are just looking for a PCP for annual checkups, there are no better doctors!

I do want to say one thing about the pharmaceutical companies having doctors in their pockets. This was the case a few years ago, but this is an illegal practice now that can have great ramifications for both the doctor and the pharma rep.. I have never felt as though a doctor is forcing one particular drug on me. This might be due to the fact that there are so few drugs out there that actually treat/help Crohn's. But lately a few drugs from a few different companies have been put on the market for CD treatment. They all do pretty much the same thing, my doctor gave me a list of these 3 drugs, I researched them myself and chose. Maybe it's different for people with other ailments, or maybe it's because my doctors know that I'm informed, but either way, I never feel pushed towards a certain drug. Just my 2 cents in that regard. I don't think any of my doctors would risk the heavy fines imposed by government for getting into bed with big pharma. They have enough bills to pay, with malpractice insurance being so high!!!

 

[dostacos]

My wife is an RN and I am a certified Prosthetist/Orthotist [and I work in a hospital, first name basis with my attendings and train 12 new orthopedic residents, 4 plastic surgery residents and some GP residents along with many, MANY med students who roll through each year.]and my wife and I STILL get the run around from ER doctors, we usually have to remind them we are NOT the average bear that wanders into their ERs....

 

[Bebop]

On that note, I was diagnosed with having allergies and asthma and medication was not working. After about 4 months of no results, I studied up on my symptoms and lifestyle and came up with reflux. Not asthma or allergies. It took me another 6 months of office visits before my doctor gave in and tested me for reflux. I have confirmed reflux disease. When it comes to your health, you really have to be in control, do your homework and not take anything for granted. You certainly can not be just a follower.

Same with Lyme disease. I had strange symptoms that my doctor could not diagnose. I went on the internet, went to the med. library at UCSF, did some brain picking of knowledgable people I know and came up with Lyme disease. My doctor told me to stop jumping to conclusions since "we don't see too much Lyme disease in S.F.", even though I told him I was an avid backpacker and was in the backcountry very often. I changed doctors and this one took me seriously and commended me for "taking charge of my health". I no longer have Lyme disease.

 

[Foofoogal]

Boy, this is my thread.
When I had my first child I was so naive. No kidding when I say my doctor nearly killed me. I was in labor for 36 hours and other terrible things. This particular doctor no longer has a practice as he went on to kill 2 other women and his license was taken away. Thank God. I waited 4 years before I was brave enough to have another child but had a dream doctor.
I learned right then one has to do their own homework when it comes to their own bodies.
In 2001 I was diagnosed with Graves disease and had never heard of it. I have since found out it runs in both sides of my families and is connected with diabetes.
Anyway I immediately found a Graves Yahoo group and long story short still have my thyroid and am on NO meds. Seems in Europe and Japan this disease is treated with meds and diet. The doctor at the time had already written me a prescription for my thyroid to be destroyed. I took 8 pills a day for 6 months and now watch my diet and am in remission if there is such a thing.
I do understand though by listening to people that many just want the doctor to fix it and give them a pill. I still scratch my head that I am well everytime I hear of someone doing RAI and now on meds the rest of their lives. Wild.

 

[Doh!]

I love Penn & Teller, but in all fairness, the girl with the petition was awfully pretty. I'd guess that at least half the guys signed because a pretty girl asked them to.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

That is an easy one!.......

Since the time of age twelve or so I've been an iconoclastic "non-follower".
Someone must have said to me, "take a look at what the crowd does, and do the exact opposite!". That has pretty much been the story of my life.

From spiritual beliefs, politics, business/occupational matters, clothing - I have gone my own way. I've never been shy of others critical opinions. I think it was Davy Crockett who said, "If you know you're right - then go ahead." I'm not always right but I'm not afraid of being wrong either.

I'm glad that I learned to be this way early in life. It allows me to wear my re-enactor gear with no embarrassment or self-consciousness. I proudly wear my fedoras without any fear of criticism. (I've got a friend who wears only t-shirts and jeans because he is afraid that someone might make fun of him if he really wore what he wanted to. I think that is a sad we to go through life.)

My motto is really, "I am what I am. I do what I do. I be what I be".

Yours truly,
Dixon Cannon

 

[dostacos]

moo, moo....

the funny thing is REAL signature gathering would need to be BY COUNTY to make it valid. Where I live LA, Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino counties all come together in the inland empire and most places that have petitions out have several desks, one per county.


You would think activitists would know that, heck any time somebody wants me to sign something I use that as my excuse to not signlol

 

[Bebop]

I love Penn & Teller, but in all fairness, the girl with the petition was awfully pretty. I'd guess that at least half the guys signed because a pretty girl asked them to.

That sounds like another one of my social questions. fftopic: How much influence can a beautiful person have on a group of people? I guess that is another thread.

 

[BeBopBaby]

Since the time of age twelve or so I've been an iconoclastic "non-follower".
Someone must have said to me, "take a look at what the crowd does, and do the exact opposite!". That has pretty much been the story of my life.

From spiritual beliefs, politics, business/occupational matters, clothing - I have gone my own way. I've never been shy of others critical opinions. I think it was Davy Crockett who said, "If you know you're right - then go ahead." I'm not always right but I'm not afraid of being wrong either.

Dixon,

I couldn't have put it better. I've just always done my own thing. I think to degree all of us have or else we wouldn't be posting on this board.

My mother told me recently that even when I was a child I always knew what I wanted to wear, read, do etc. and she couldn't do much about it. I've always been a solitary person that really didn't care what others thought about me so school really wasn't a problem either, I just did my own thing.

Has anyone here ever taken the Myers Briggs personality tests? I'd be interested in seeing what we all rank personality wise. Through my job, I've had the chance to take it twice and both times I was ranked a very strong INFJ - a very rare personality type that less than 1% of the world has. In fact, the second time I took the test, the instructor saw my results and did a spit take. lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think I'm a mix of the two, actually. In most respects I've always followed the rules and toed the mark because I was raised to do that -- and yet I never had a problem going against the grain of the crowd when rebelliousness for the sake of rebelliousness became trendy -- I never got pushed into doing things I didn't want to do simply to fit in.

I'm definitely not an activist in the whoop-and-holler-and-carry-a-sign sense -- I have no desire to enforce my will or my beliefs on anyone else. But neither will I stand for them forcing theirs on me.

 

[Twitch]

I've always been somewhat of a non-conformist.

On the subject of the medical profession, I believe the doctors accurately diagnose you 50% of the time for proper treatment. The down side is that the other 50% of the time they haven't got a clue and simply throw sheiite on the wall hoping to hit the target. Oh, you're the wall in this case.

And on the subject of nation health care I see all this conceptual energy being directed to this end. But I ask you one question- are your sincerely comfortable with the same people who do such a poor job in government service being responsible for YOUR health care? Think IRS, FEMA, FBI, EPA, BATF etc.

 

[Ben]

One thought about doctors. The best way to find a good doctor is to get a physical when you are healthy. Then you can see how the doctor is and how s/he responds to your concerns without having to also deal with the stress of illness. I like the one I found because he won't even start examining me until he has talked to me for about five or ten minutes.

 

[nulty]

One of the most basic instincts we carry around is to join...to belong......

Even the most iconoclastic personalities still have the need to belong. It doesn't necessarily mean to Follow. Still when put in the position of signing a seemingly innocuous petition , since there was no immediate threat, it was pretty easy to be taken in by the well done scam and satisfy that instinct.....

 

[Doh!]

That sounds like another one of my social questions. fftopic: How much influence can a beautiful person have on a group of people? I guess that is another thread.

Legend has it, people who only heard the audio portion of the Nixon/Kennedy debate though that Nixon won it pretty easily. I've not seen (or heard) enough of it to make a judgement, but it's worthy of a discussion.