A couple of fashion pet peeves...

[crawlinkingsnake]

Who are you taking me for, some kind of hound dog?

Haaaa! Not unless yer thinkin' ya might be Big Mama Thornton!

 

[Edward]

I'll have to remember this. I've spoken to family friends that are in the tech industry, and they've all said that business attire is a very ostracized practice, and that employees usually just show up in t-shirt and jeans. What's with giving the guy who puts in a little more effort crap?

Herd mentality. Simple as that; some people never grow out of feeling threatened by "different".

I few years ago I went to the bank where I recently got an account at and they sent me to speak with one of their employees . He was wearing a big loose dark green polo shirt (didn't see the bottoms as he was sitting down) with the buttons all undone and looked like he just got done mowing his lawn.
Regardless of what we spoke about (which I don't even remember), I distinctly recall that his shaggy attire alone did not leave me a good impression on the bank at all.

It's interesting how people in general expect certain jobs to bed filled by persons dressed formally. Even people I know who never dress formally themselves, who hate the idea, who would never wear a tie to the mortgage meeting, would still be upset if their bank manager or their lawyer didn't wear collar and tie - and preferably a suit. Some roles seem to have it ingrained in them in the public perception - maybe it's an authority figure thing, and or all some rail at "the man", they still want certain authority figures to be, well.... authority figures, and dressed as such.

 

[Bugguy]

Yep. When I decided to change jobs and move up in my post college days I cut my hair that was long; several years worth of length. I did it because I wanted to give the right impression. Like it or not, people make snap judgments about you and long hair, tattoos, piercings, etc. might hold you back.

Now this will come off sounding totally non-PC, but there was a barista at the Nashville airport preparing coffee who was covered with tattoos. If he had a clean apron or shirt, or hadn't picked up a spoon he dropped and continued using it, I might not have given him a second look. But... being in the healthcare field and sensitive to disease transmission, all I could think of was "high risk for hepatitis". We would have screened him out for tissue - bone or corneal - donation. He was probably a really nice young man with a PhD in some esoteric field; however, at an airport with business travelers and guests from around the world... really??

Closer to home, the only fashion advice I've ever given my older teen daughter was to lose the lip ring when she was working the counter in an ice cream shop. She did and never put it back. BTW - she has a couple of attractive tattoos where they can be covered if necessary.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Now this will come off sounding totally non-PC, but there was a barista at the Nashville airport preparing coffee who was covered with tattoos. If he had a clean apron or shirt, or hadn't picked up a spoon he dropped and continued using it, I might not have given him a second look. But... being in the healthcare field and sensitive to disease transmission, all I could think of was "high risk for hepatitis". We would have screened him out for tissue - bone or corneal - donation. He was probably a really nice young man with a PhD in some esoteric field; however, at an airport with business travelers and guests from around the world... really??

Closer to home, the only fashion advice I've ever given my older teen daughter was to lose the lip ring when she was working the counter in an ice cream shop. She did and never put it back. BTW - she has a couple of attractive tattoos where they can be covered if necessary.

I don't have time for political correctness, and your posting is spot-on. So often we have just a moment to make a judgment call and the cover of the book is all we can see. It's how the world has to be. We can't take the time and expend the effort to dig deep on these types of encounters.

I don't have, nor do I want, tattoos, but I'm fine with others having them. I do like the forethought of keeping them where they can be covered.

 

[Bugguy]

Herd mentality. Simple as that; some people never grow out of feeling threatened by "different"
It's interesting how people in general expect certain jobs to bed filled by persons dressed formally. Even people I know who never dress formally themselves, who hate the idea, who would never wear a tie to the mortgage meeting, would still be upset if their bank manager or their lawyer didn't wear collar and tie - and preferably a suit. Some roles seem to have it ingrained in them in the public perception - maybe it's an authority figure thing, and or all some rail at "the man", they still want certain authority figures to be, well.... authority figures, and dressed as such.

I believe the term in sociology is dramaturgy (Goffman); the role requires a costume, e.g. the doctors white coat and stethoscope, the administrators suit, the painters white shirt and pants, etc. I've always been interested when professions collide. An example might be nursing... some will wear the white coat with the stethoscope around their neck. If a patient assumes they're a doctor, they don't correct them. It's actually gotten to the point that hospitals have to label the players because they look alike... just look at the badges: Doctors - big letters MD and nurses big, red RN. I guess this qualifies as another of my fashion pet peeves.

Note to nurses: Before the coven casts a spell, I am not disparaging the practical advantages of wearing scrubs, though now everyone looks like a surgeon. Hence, the badges. The love of my life is a nurse, so I offer that example with great trepidation.

 

[Bushman]

I've always made it a point in my life never to judge a book by their cover, and it's served me well in my life. As a child, I remember even making it a point to wave and say "hello" to some shaved headed muscle man shining up his motorcycle while listening to some heavy metal just because my mother found him creepy. The man was completely nice and waved by with his own "hello" back. As my Dad has always said, "I've been screwed over by more guys in business suits than I ever have *insert non-shirt tucker of discussion here*." I know I have for a fact, more of those men in the business suits at the airport are actively doing more to screw over their customers for the bottom dollar, than that tattooed covered barista. Though, I will say his questionable use of clean silverware would definitely make my bypass his coffee stand.

 

[Canadian]

I suppose it's a grand experiment. Take two people, each hawking a mobile telephone (at my local shopping center there are several kiosks which sell phones). One stand has a young lady in a casual, but clean dress and the other has a young lady with a lip ring, tattoos and pink hair. Which one would you trust enough to hand her 700 dollars and sign a contract?

I also don't have time for being PC. If you are at a bank, at a shop, selling me a sleeping bag or a late model Buick, I expect you to wear a shirt and tie. If you are a manager, I expect you to wear a suit. I don't want to see your tattoo, your body piercing, and I definitely don't want to see an obscene or band tee shirt. I want to assume that you know what you're talking about, and that's conveyed by your wearing proper clothing.

I don't like casual Friday.

I once checked into a hotel and the clerk was not only wearing a shirt and tie, his shirt was monogrammed. I thought that was really smart, and he was able to show what an individual he was, by having his initials on the end of his cuff.

C.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I've always made it a point in my life never to judge a book by their cover, and it's served me well in my life. As a child, I remember even making it a point to wave and say "hello" to some shaved headed muscle man shining up his motorcycle while listening to some heavy metal just because my mother found him creepy. The man was completely nice and waved by with his own "hello" back. As my Dad has always said, "I've been screwed over by more guys in business suits than I ever have *insert non-shirt tucker of discussion here*." I know I have for a fact, more of those men in the business suits at the airport are actively doing more to screw over their customers for the bottom dollar, than that tattooed covered barista. Though, I will say his questionable use of clean silverware would definitely make my bypass his coffee stand.

That sounds nice, and the guy with violent gang and/or racist tattoos might have been "born again" and be a sweetheart. If you are around them a lot you have the chance to get beyond the "cover." If you have two seconds to make an assessment....well, you do whatever you want but I know what I'm doing. Your analogy of who has done more to "screw" us over doesn't hold when you extend it to who commits more violent crimes or who is more likely to be a carrier of some nasty diseases. Just working the probabilities. Additionally, as social animals humans put pressure on individuals to conform. The nonconformist are sometimes great artist or thinkers but they are also more likely to be involved in less acceptable deviant behaviors.

It's not fair to paint them all with the same brush, but then life isn't fair. I don't mean to sound trite, or dismissive, but I'm a realist.

 

[HanauMan]

I believe the term in sociology is dramaturgy (Goffman); the role requires a costume, e.g. the doctors white coat and stethoscope, the administrators suit, the painters white shirt and pants, etc. I've always been interested when professions collide. An example might be nursing... some will wear the white coat with the stethoscope around their neck. If a patient assumes they're a doctor, they don't correct them. It's actually gotten to the point that hospitals have to label the players because they look alike... just look at the badges: Doctors - big letters MD and nurses big, red RN. I guess this qualifies as another of my fashion pet peeves.

Note to nurses: Before the coven casts a spell, I am not disparaging the practical advantages of wearing scrubs, though now everyone looks like a surgeon. Hence, the badges. The love of my life is a nurse, so I offer that example with great trepidation.

First of all, not all nurses are females. Nor have I met any who were witches!

I was a RN for 25 years, 20 of those years as a orthopaedic trauma RN.

Yes, we all wore scrubs but the colors were different depending on whether you were a doctor, nurse or whatever.
Yes, the scrubs weren't as nice as traditional starched white cottons but they are a lot more practical. They are more comfortable, important if you're working twelve hour shifts. They are much cooler to work in considering modern central heating in hospitals in winter or hot summer days with broken air conditioning! And they are much easier to clean, important for infection control. Plus, as a bonus, they give folk something to moan about, how things were so much better in the good old days!

 

[Zoukatron]

My fashion pet peeve: the trickle-down effect the fashion industry has on (for want of a better term) not or less fashionable clothes.

Classic styling pretty much has fit nailed. Whether we are talking about suits, formal shirts, chinos, whatever. Because fashion means moving away from the classic form ("Is it skinny or extra-wide lapels this year?"), this inevitably involves the fit getting, in some way, worse. At the moment, this primarily means lots of clothing being way to tight.

This would be fine is there were still plenty of classically shaped clothing items available, but in a lot of places, high street stores just sell what is fashionable, giving you very few options at the lower price ranges.

I've recently qualified as a massage therapist, and I primarily do home visits to clients. As you can imagine, my job involves a lot of movement and sweat, but I still like to arrive at a client's home looking respectable - that means I turn up in an oxford shirt and chinos. I've accepted that I have to switch to a t-shirt whilst actually performing a massage (I sometimes change t-shirt for every client - again, it's about showing respect). Trousers are a bit more of an issue though - I have scoured the shops looking for some that give me the freedom of movement I need (which classic fit does) whilst being washable and not too thick (they do exist, I've had them in the past) - but it feels like an impossible task these days. As it is now winter, I can fudge it by wearing thin track suit bottoms underneath my chinos... but it still irritates me greatly.

Damn you fashion! [shakes fist at vague anthropomorphic personification]

 

[scottyrocks]

Any doctor's office I have ever been to that has nurses and PAs in scrubs also has doctors in shirt and tie, usually with a lab coat over it. Very easy to tell the difference between the Dr. and the RN. Hospitals can be a different story, but the only time I ever see a doctor in scrubs has been just prior to, during, or after a surgical procedure.

And does anyone still buy late model Buicks?

 

[Edward]

I believe the term in sociology is dramaturgy (Goffman); the role requires a costume, e.g. the doctors white coat and stethoscope, the administrators suit, the painters white shirt and pants, etc.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of the specific term. I get the phenomenon, though. I wonder how much of it is down to early-years education, the stereotypical imagery given in first-reading books, or to the media... These stereotypes and prejudices, which they undoubtedly are, whether based in clothing, piercings, tattoos, hair colour or whatever have to come from somewhere. Nobody is born thinking that the guy with an anchor or skull drawn on his arm is Probably A Bad Man as a result.

I've always been interested when professions collide. An example might be nursing... some will wear the white coat with the stethoscope around their neck. If a patient assumes they're a doctor, they don't correct them. It's actually gotten to the point that hospitals have to label the players because they look alike... just look at the badges: Doctors - big letters MD and nurses big, red RN. I guess this qualifies as another of my fashion pet peeves.

My fiancé was in hospital for a week over the Christmas / New Year break, and one of the things I noticed was the prevalence of scrubs and the labelling on them. Some of the traditional lines have indeed been blurred in the medical profession in recent decades, with both more women Doctors and - more recently - the rise of the male nurse. No longer is it the case that if a man comes to treat you he's likely to be a doctor, while a woman is probably a nurse. Interestingly, it really did take several more decades in the UK before male nurses were as accepted as female doctors. I think a lot of this was down to an old prejudice, now thankfully dying out, that nurses were somehow lesser than doctors, as opposed to being of an alternative side to the medical profession. (Any decent doctor, at least in the UK, will tell you the nurses know far more about their patients and do far more to keep the NHS going!) Perhaps any blurring of the roles that has come about as a result of the shift to everyone (bar, it seems, the Consultants) in scrubs is a major bonus if it means all are finally being valued as they should.

I've always made it a point in my life never to judge a book by their cover, and it's served me well in my life. As a child, I remember even making it a point to wave and say "hello" to some shaved headed muscle man shining up his motorcycle while listening to some heavy metal just because my mother found him creepy. The man was completely nice and waved by with his own "hello" back. As my Dad has always said, "I've been screwed over by more guys in business suits than I ever have *insert non-shirt tucker of discussion here*." I know I have for a fact, more of those men in the business suits at the airport are actively doing more to screw over their customers for the bottom dollar, than that tattooed covered barista. Though, I will say his questionable use of clean silverware would definitely make my bypass his coffee stand.

It's the flipside of expecting your bank manager to dress nice, isn't it - or at least something of the same mindset - dismissing someone because of their appearance. I remember tattoos being very much subject to a lot of prejudice when I was growing up in Northern Ireland - partly due to the fact that a proportion of the tattoed population were pledging their allegiances to political creeds (and means of advancing them) that may not have appealed to the viewer, though often it was simply a class-prejudice, ink at the time being perceived as very much for the lower (and therefore implicitly less valuable) classes. Oddly, I've yet to meet a tattooed person whose ever given a second's thought to an uninked persons lack of tattoos. It's nice that these things are finally changing, though, and a lot of the old prejudices are gradually breaking down. Currently, we're seeing a debate in some UK policed forces as to whether tattoos visible when in uniform are acceptable (for the most part, this means hands and necks). I do wonder if in thirty or forty years it will even be an issue they think of.

Yes, we all wore scrubs but the colors were different depending on whether you were a doctor, nurse or whatever.
Yes, the scrubs weren't as nice as traditional starched white cottons but they are a lot more practical. They are more comfortable, important if you're working twelve hour shifts. They are much cooler to work in considering modern central heating in hospitals in winter or hot summer days with broken air conditioning! And they are much easier to clean, important for infection control. Plus, as a bonus, they give folk something to moan about, how things were so much better in the good old days!

The practicality is certainly the element my friends who are nurses stress.

This would be fine is there were still plenty of classically shaped clothing items available, but in a lot of places, high street stores just sell what is fashionable, giving you very few options at the lower price ranges.

I know what you mean; since the age of fourteen, I've been actively aligned to one subculture or another, and always seem to have been at odds with mainstream fashion. The irony that drainpipe jeans became achingly fashionable two years after I stopped wearing them (after years of scouring the web and London's goth stores just to keep myself in trousers) was not lost on me. I'm told by female friends it's significantly worse, though, as there's rarely anywhere that doesn't try and follow fashioin women's wear, as distinct from menswear where there's usually *something* close enough if we search harder.

I've recently qualified as a massage therapist, and I primarily do home visits to clients. As you can imagine, my job involves a lot of movement and sweat, but I still like to arrive at a client's home looking respectable - that means I turn up in an oxford shirt and chinos. I've accepted that I have to switch to a t-shirt whilst actually performing a massage (I sometimes change t-shirt for every client - again, it's about showing respect). Trousers are a bit more of an issue though - I have scoured the shops looking for some that give me the freedom of movement I need (which classic fit does) whilst being washable and not too thick (they do exist, I've had them in the past) - but it feels like an impossible task these days. As it is now winter, I can fudge it by wearing thin track suit bottoms underneath my chinos... but it still irritates me greatly.

Damn you fashion! [shakes fist at vague anthropomorphic personification]

Have you seen the 8oz, 30s-cut poplin Chino 'deck pants' SJC did last Summer? https://simonjamescathcart.com/collections/trousers/products/sale-navy-chinos

They only have a few sizes left and only in the blue, but I believe Simon is going to do another run of them this year as well. Worth dropping them a line. I have some, they're ideal, light trousers in Summer heat, which might just fit with what it sounds like you're after.

 

[Zoukatron]

Have you seen the 8oz, 30s-cut poplin Chino 'deck pants' SJC did last Summer? https://simonjamescathcart.com/collections/trousers/products/sale-navy-chinos

They only have a few sizes left and only in the blue, but I believe Simon is going to do another run of them this year as well. Worth dropping them a line. I have some, they're ideal, light trousers in Summer heat, which might just fit with what it sounds like you're after.

Ooh... they may well be. I'll check them out. Thanks!

 

[Bugguy]

First of all, not all nurses are females. Nor have I met any who were witches!

I was a RN for 25 years, 20 of those years as a orthopaedic trauma RN.

Yes, we all wore scrubs but the colors were different depending on whether you were a doctor, nurse or whatever.
Yes, the scrubs weren't as nice as traditional starched white cottons but they are a lot more practical. They are more comfortable, important if you're working twelve hour shifts. They are much cooler to work in considering modern central heating in hospitals in winter or hot summer days with broken air conditioning! And they are much easier to clean, important for infection control. Plus, as a bonus, they give folk something to moan about, how things were so much better in the good old days!

Please, my intent was not to disparage nurses, although the most egregious examples of masquerading (my term) as a doctor were by male nurses. I have become, not by design, a nursing administrator with RNs and NPs reporting to me. I love them, their scrubs, their Crocs, dearly. I actually wish as an administrator I could toss the suit and wear scrubs occasionally - it would definitely impact my wardrobe budget.

As for my coven comment, I tease my nursing leader colleagues about the need to have frequent off-site planning meetings. I can't believe how much planning goes on in an environment where the ability to influence corporate change is as constrained as it is. In spite of planning, hand washing on the IP units is a dismal 37%. Maybe we need less planning and more implementation and accountability.

I love this free flow of ideas - this forum makes you think beyond 280 characters. Thank you for indulging me!

 

[Doc Smith]

Tech? My little brother owns a tech firm and he never wears a tie, unless going out for dinner or drinks. He didn't wear anything but a waistcoat and tie to his own wedding.
C.

Yow. Sounds uncomfortably drafty.

Reminds me of my late mother-in-law, who informed my soon-to-be wife that she planned to wear a hat and gloves to our wedding. Turns out the dress and shoes were implicit, which was probably better off for all concerned.

 

[HudsonHawk]

I few years ago I went to the bank where I recently got an account at and they sent me to speak with one of their employees . He was wearing a big loose dark green polo shirt (didn't see the bottoms as he was sitting down) with the buttons all undone and looked like he just got done mowing his lawn.
Regardless of what we spoke about (which I don't even remember), I distinctly recall that his shaggy attire alone did not leave me a good impression on the bank at all.

"If you're gonna play the blues, you should dress like you're going to the bank to borrow money" - B.B. King

When I started my career in Big Oil, men were expected to wear a business suit and tie everyday. You could take your jacket off in your office, but if you left your office...to go to a meeting, to the bathroom, to another office, you'd better have your jacket on. We slowly went to "business casual", which in those days meant dress slacks and a long-sleeved collard shirt. Lately it's morphed into jeans and bowling shoes. I'm not suggesting we return to the suit days, but dang it, you're a professional...act like it. You should behave differently in the office than you do out drinking at the bar with your pals.

And speaking of suits, drinking, and pet peeves...I've always hated wearing your suit and tie with the tie loosened and the top button unbuttoned. It always had this intoxicated quality to me. Even at the bar...take the tie off if you want to unwind, but leaving it half on makes you look like a cartoon bum.

 

[OldStrummer]

Here's another fashion pet peeve of mine (gosh, I didn't know I had so many until I came across this thread!): Untucked shirts. Oh, I don't mean polo shirts, although that's debatable, or t-shirts, or any of that uber-casual stuff. I'm talking about dress shirts worn with the tail out. There's even a company now bragging on how they make dress shirts designed to be worn untucked (I'm looking at YOU, Untuckit.com). So, maybe it's passable with jeans, but I even find wearing jeans together with a dress shirt unsettling. Worse still, is the guy who puts a jacket or sweater on over an untucked shirt, and then walks around like he's got a duck's patoot waving over his backside. Looks flipping stupid to me!

 

[shadowrider]

Folks, let's not forget the obnoxious omni-presence of "distressed" clothing among the contemporary offering.
I'm not talking vintage (obviously), but artificially aged and weathered: I'm talking about sandblasting denim, using sandpaper on leather, yellowing white sneaker soles before they come out of the factory, fake paint stains and many other little devilish tricks. Honestly it's gotten to the point of ridiculous.
Several times I had to pass on an otherwise fine article of clothing because it was artificially distressed, especially graphic t-shirts where I liked the design, but it was printed to look worn in.
If I want distressed I'll buy vintage/used or wear the heck out of my own clothes, thank you.

 

[shadowrider]

Oh, and I just thought about another silly pet peeve of mine: people wearing blue shoes AND blue belt. That's taking the "matching the leathers" rule (especially since most of the time the blue belt is a not leather, but a ribbon belt) way too far, and they end up looking forced and foolish.

PS: I pay way too much attention to the way people dress.

 

[BlueTrain]

What an interesting thread. How did I miss it and not make foolish comments already.

I don't think manufacturers create fashion: they follow it and follow it intensely, just the same as some of you do. Has there ever been a time when the factories were making things people didn't want. You fail to realize that some people want certain kinds of clothes and more often than not, what they want is something new and different. They don't want anything classic, meaning their idea of what people wore either way back when or, alternatively, when they were in college. Classic is a highly elastic term that can be stretched to mean anything. No one would imagine classic to mean narrow leg, uncreased pants worn with a frock coat and a stiff detachable collar. That was a standard form of men's dress at one time, which is not to say all men wore such a thing. Most men never had one. But nobody is ever called upon to define classic.

I'm the last one here at work who wears a tie, which I think I've mentioned before. That in itself isn't particularly significant and the only thing it probably says about me is that I rather like neckties and don't mind wearing them. I never wear a suit anymore, although my recently retired boss never wore anything else. I don't believe he gave that any particular or grave importance, it was simply the way he dressed to come to work. I even think that he dressed like that partly because it gave him the freedom to not think about what to wear. It was one less thing on his mind. In other words, to him, what he wore wasn't important to him.

But you would be surprised at the same time at what other men might think about clothing. One of my uncles worked for the railroad in a shop that manufactured railroad rolling stock. His entire wardrobe would have fitted into one large suitcase, including all his outerwear, his footwear, his two baseball caps and his suit that was for wearing to funerals and which, finally, he wore at his own. But that doesn't include three or four coveralls that he wore on the job, at least in cold weather. One had somehow accidentally become spotted with bleach (they were plain cotton herringbone work overalls). His wife, my aunt, said he refused to wear them. So in a funny way, he was conscious of what he was wearing.

This was less true of my father who would wear his suit all day on Sunday, him being a devoted church-goer. Curiously, neither my father or that uncle seemed to wear much in the way of outerwear, apparently a trucker-style jacket being sufficient all winter long. But my father was in fact a truck driver.

I have my own idea of classic clothing, too, and true to form, they aren't available anymore, at least not the suits. And alas, suits don't come with two pair of pants anymore. I have spent my working life sitting down, mostly, and the pants are the first to go. Admiral Byrd said he made all of his achievements sitting down, too, but he never mentioned pants.

I could say more and you know I will.