Who Gets to Wear Workwear?

handymike · Dec 30, 2024

I’ve been undergoing some changes in my life, and this post on IG hits on something I’ve been contemplating.

Ken Sakata on Instagram: "Who gets to wear workwear?"

46K likes, 580 comments - frontoffice.co on December 29, 2024: "Who gets to wear workwear?".

www.instagram.com

For the New Year, I am going to make more considered and thoughtful choices.

Please feel free to share your thoughts…..

Happy New Year!

CatsCan · Dec 30, 2024

I don't belong to the rich men's class who's members can buy a chore coat for 3000 Dollars and I honestly think it is laughable but speaks for the decadency of people who's money or income doesn't serve any meaningful purpose anymore. But to say, that someone is wrecking the identity symbols of working class people just by adapting to a style and navigating to the highest priced symbols mimicking this clothing segment but somehow matching their own wallet, is kind of stipulating class separation in it's own right, as if terms existed who may or may not wear this or that. Hamburgian Dock Yard workers around 1900 saved money for a suit and a bowler and went well dressed like "real" Gentlemen to an amusement or to Hagenbeck's Tierpark with their spouses on a weekend, women started wearing knee high leather boots previously worn by Cavalry Officers, and pants, causing debate, heck, men wearing women's clothes... the list is long. Today's men are looked at when they wear knee high officers boots because it is seen as a female attribute nowadays. People wearing military style streetwear without having served, are they disrespecting the profession of those who are soldiers? Put in this perspective, my mindset is, our clothes don't need to represent anything if we are authentic in our inner self and true to our personality. Maybe I have misunderstood the whole video and it is about something completely different. I am a prehistorian AND a carpenter, reconstructing prehistoric buildings. When I am talking to students in a lecture at the University wearing street wear corduroy pants but showing images of one of my typical construction sites they see a man wearing German traditional carpenter's pants, part of the traditional "Kluft", they are visibly disturbed when they learn, that the man on the fotos is the same guy who is talking to them right now, they have always looked at people wearing this kind of pant as working class people, but at the same time they are listening to an academic. When I work with children in the woods, what I do twice a week, I am seen as a teacher or children's caretaker, while I am nothing of that. And my clothes don't even match the first or the second assumption. As long as the thief is not wearing the uniform of a police officer or the attacking soldiers are not wearing civilian clothing I am calm and let the people think what they like and wear what they want to wear.

Bfd70 · Dec 30, 2024

Haven’t watched the video yet but that seems a good response. I think TFL “wear what makes you happy” ethos rules all.

watched it now. He hit it. Clothes are just clothes.

Monitor · Dec 30, 2024

If clothes really are just clothes and if everyone can wear everything, we wouldn't be talking about this topic anymore.

The Last Cowboy · Dec 30, 2024

Well the “core issue” talked about towards the end was labor exploitation, underpaid workers, and how we can, to an extent, steer markets in a better direction via our choice of companies we choose to buy products from.

I put effort into researching most companies before any major purchase. I chose to buy Aero. Paramo rain gear has a great company philosophy. Asphalte (recently discovered) provides info on the full supply chain, co2 equivalent emissions, phosphorus, water. My choices are a drop in the bucket. However, a mass movement away from fast fashion while increasing focus on just pay and conditions for those making the garments (among other things) has the potential to change the current H & M societal/fashion paradigm. Maybe.

CatsCan · Dec 30, 2024

Fair points. I re-evalued my consumption of clothing a long time ago after having seen a documentary about labor conditions in some countries. What we buy has the greatest impact on how people who make our clothes are treated and the environment. Seeing the IG video a second time I seem to get the idea. How the 3000 Dollar chore jacket is symptomatic in this respect I still seem to have my problems to fully understand, though.

CatsCan · Dec 31, 2024

Monitor said:
If clothes really are just clothes and if everyone can wear everything, we wouldn't be talking about this topic anymore.

If there were rules who may wear what, we wouldn't either.

CatsCan · Dec 31, 2024

I think, since at least middle palaeolithic, clothes were not just clothes in terms of a functional equipment to keep us warm and protect us from the environments of newly inhabited lands with conditions not too much in favor of naked humans, but also to express social positioning, association with our companions and discrimination from others. We seem to have inherited this as a behavior from our ancestors. In this respect, I agree with Monitor.

Zoro · Dec 31, 2024

I don't get the video. The point is "buy more quality garments of an origin you know to be fair", but there's nothing really touching or related to a 3000 USD workwear jacket. The video could had been done talking about other [past] trends such as military clothes, skate/surf clothes or even a crisps bag instead of workwear to convey the same message.

Perhaps this is a short extract of a long form video and he touches on LV creating a workwear item, even if done without exploiting workers in poor conditions, would still cause fast fashion to do follow the trend with cheaper versions with higher chances of them being made by people in poor conditions. Or perhaps its just this short video.

CatsCan · Dec 31, 2024

The chore jacket for 3000 seems to be used as a metaphor.: "rich" people buy luxory versions of worker's clothes for money you could feed a family of a real worker for three months or even many more in countries where most of the planet's clothing is produced. Even though, those few "luxorious" items, even if kind of a visually understatement, aren't causing the problems, but the mass of people who try and have to make ends meet and therefor buy as cheap as they can. They could not afford fair, ethical and ecological produced clothes and thus these are sadly somehow becoming just another identifying "in-thing" for wealthier people who can show off that they have the freedom of choice because their income justifies buying "organic" and locally produced food and clothing labelled as "better for the planet". Recently I read, that the EU will ban all cotton clothing in Europe and only allow fabrics that are and can be recycled. And companies try to convince people that buying polyfleece from recycled plastic bottles is a good idea instead of having plastic bottles ending up as landfill. But microplastics in the oceans are a big concern and to some extend polyester-fleece clothing due to abrasion by use and washing cycles are part of this problem. So we break up plastic bottles to create something which is even faster degrading into microplastics by using and washing alone and that end up in the ocean, isn't this only accellerating the issues?
I think if this is what Ken Sakata wants us to do, to think about and discuss the contradictions of this topic, then it's a good thing. I can't deny that my clothing attitude bears the imprint of affluence.

Eagledog · Dec 31, 2024

Today, we have enough clothing to supply the next 6 generations of people on planet earth, without running out of stuff to wear.
Time to check the closet and see how many lifetimes of clothing is in there....

bigmanbigtruck · Dec 31, 2024

Imo, the question doesn't really make sense anymore based on the types of people that buy vintage-inspired workwear. Generally these are consumers that want to celebrate/memorialize the heritage of these garments and not for performing actual laborious work.

Tbh, I kinda hate when these fashion houses/producers try to give the impression that these items are workwear, rugged wear, etc... It always leads to these comparisons between what is actually worn by today's working-class folks and then you end up being called a cosplayer. If you compare hard enough, you could even say wearing a business suit has roots from the military. Stolen valor?

Almost all of men's clothing has roots from military or actual workwear.

In any case, today's working class have completely different choices for modern-day workwear dictated by materials, functionality, specializations, regulations and safety standards; that it doesn't make as much sense to compare it to these vintage-inspired garments.

Nykwil · Dec 31, 2024

CatsCan said:
I don't belong to the rich men's class who's members can buy a chore coat for 3000 Dollars and I honestly think it is laughable but speaks for the decadency of people who's money or income doesn't serve any meaningful purpose anymore. But to say, that someone is wrecking the identity symbols of working class people just by adapting to a style and navigating to the highest priced symbols mimicking this clothing segment but somehow matching their own wallet, is kind of stipulating class separation in it's own right, as if terms existed who may or may not wear this or that. Hamburgian Dock Yard workers around 1900 saved money for a suit and a bowler and went well dressed like "real" Gentlemen to an amusement or to Hagenbeck's Tierpark with their spouses on a weekend, women started wearing knee high leather boots previously worn by Cavalry Officers, and pants, causing debate, heck, men wearing women's clothes... the list is long. Today's men are looked at when they wear knee high officers boots because it is seen as a female attribute nowadays. People wearing military style streetwear without having served, are they disrespecting the profession of those who are soldiers? Put in this perspective, my mindset is, our clothes don't need to represent anything if we are authentic in our inner self and true to our personality. Maybe I have misunderstood the whole video and it is about something completely different. I am a prehistorian AND a carpenter, reconstructing prehistoric buildings. When I am talking to students in a lecture at the University wearing street wear corduroy pants but showing images of one of my typical construction sites they see a man wearing German traditional carpenter's pants, part of the traditional "Kluft", they are visibly disturbed when they learn, that the man on the fotos is the same guy who is talking to them right now, they have always looked at people wearing this kind of pant as working class people, but at the same time they are listening to an academic. When I work with children in the woods, what I do twice a week, I am seen as a teacher or children's caretaker, while I am nothing of that. And my clothes don't even match the first or the second assumption. As long as the thief is not wearing the uniform of a police officer or the attacking soldiers are not wearing civilian clothing I am calm and let the people think what they like and wear what they want to wear.

TLW '90 · Dec 31, 2024

I think there's a big difference between wearing expensive premium representations of old fashioned workwear, and certain people destroying workwear brands solely for the brand name / logo alone in turn destroying said brand that finds itself catering to the fashion trend following people who don't really care about the purposeful quality it used to mean.

It's not that people shouldn't wear what they want, but that they need to realize the negative impacts they can have on people by turning the workwear ruggedwear and outerwear...etc they rely on into unreliable just for looks fashion.

Workwear brands like Carhart have slipped way down hill.
Filson has become a horrendously overpriced Hipster brand that doesn't offer nearly the substance for your money they used to.
Danner, most of their traditional hiking boots are now a shell of what they used to be after becoming " stylish ".
I hate Dickies because their pockets suck and the fly is too small, but I lived with it before they became so fashionable then quality went downhill and now you couldn't pay me to wear them.
I liked their classic black canvas work jacket, but they're no longer a real work jacket.

Yes I know there are other factors involved with companies going down hill like this, but catering to fashion trends contributes to it and really just adds insult to injury.

Nykwil · Dec 31, 2024

You guys shouldnt feel ashamed for wanting to wear workwear. There’s no need for guilting people.

Anyone sensible who gives a dang bout workwear will be for it rather than some fleeting trend. The rich folks can spend their money.

Eagledog · Dec 31, 2024

Remember in the 1960s when The North Face only made hard core mountaineering gear?
In the 1970's Eddie Bauer made survival down sleeping bags and jackets.
L.L. Bean made coats and boots for long days or weeks of hunting and fishing in harsh conditions. Filson did the same thing. And so did Woolrich.
Sometime in the 1980's they all ditched their core business and mass produced lower quality look alike products overseas for the yuppie crowd. The new customers freely spent Mom and Dad's money. Having durability was not something the new customer gave any consideration to. They would just replace it with something new when it fell apart.
Remember bringing shoes to a cobbler and keeping the same pair for many years? Now it's sneakers and Hey Dude shoes that are garbage in a few months.

AeroFan_07 · Dec 31, 2024

I do not have Instagram, so it is not letting me watch the video.

I can just imagine what the contents are...

Being raised on a Midwest grain farm I will just state there is absolutely nothing glamourous about wearing your expensive shoes, jeans and jacket into a chicken coop, walking through their crap and often having to actually handle a rowdy rooster. Same thing with cleaning out a grain bin in a cloud of dust and fines, using a sweep auger (if it worked) and shoveling out the last 6" of a grain bin in 95F heat around turning grain augers, 95+ DB noise and the pressure to get it done as rapidly as possible.

There are days I dislike my "desk" job now. However, looking back I am thankful for the experiences I had, and what I was afforded. Sometimes I think a good day, week, or even a few years of hard manual labor is good for the soul.

The Last Cowboy · Dec 31, 2024

CatsCan said:
How the 3000 Dollar chore jacket is symptomatic in this respect I still seem to have my problems to fully understand, though.

Yes, it’s a bit of a bait and switch argument really. Here are apples, but now let’s briefly focus on the real monsters, oranges.

MickeyPunch · Dec 31, 2024

Gatekeeping.

Tom71 · Dec 31, 2024

This is an interesng discussion. And a typical one for folks with a certain income (and usually of a certain age). If your main struggle is to put food on the table, that´s really all that matters; considerations for "the greater good" (however one defines that) usually come at a different point in life.
Just as a sidenote, I always wonder if it´s a good or bad thing that in many countries of the western world, we are now faced with a generation that never had to worrie about profane issues like work, food, accomodation, and who take the fastlane to "being a better self".

I am not judging any of this, to be clear.

Myself, I just try to make conscious and considered decisions.

Like we do here when it comes to clothing, really. As a simple example, if I chose to buy a Himel today, I do it knowing the full scope of TFL´s opinion on him, his capabilities as a craftsman and his limitations as a human. I am still "right" in my decision and can demand from TFL not to be judged for my considerations.

Food is a good example for considered decisions: I can try to buy "seasonal and local", but if my wife calls me at work at 8pm, telling me we´re out of milk, I will just drop by the nearest supermarket and buy whatver milk they have. "Time" being my consideration then, and that certainly does not make me a worse part of society. "Money" again, is a good consideration for most people most of the time.

So that´s the golden rule for me: Think about what you are doing. Think about the impact it has on you, your family and others, and 99% of the time you are in the clear, IMO. Don´t let others tell you what is "right". We are learning every day that every generation will judge differently.

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