Identifying early hats by sweatband: A Guide

[Dinerman]

Here's a quick guide to identifying earlier (pre 1940s) American hats by their sweatbands.

In the ebay thread, I posted this list of elements which can be used for dating.

-Reeded vs. Unreeded
- Type of reeding used
-Type of stitching and fineness of stitching used on the sweatband
- texture of the leather used on the sweatband
-Color of sweatband
-width of the sweatband
- embossing on the edges of the sweatband
- depth, clarity, style and color of markings on the sweatband
- taped vs. sewn rear seam
- style of size tag
-style of bow at the rear of the sweatband
------------------------------------------

Reeding:

Reeded Sweatband

Note that the stitching on the sweatband is VVVVVV , which was not seen much on later sweatbands. This was not the only way that reeded sweatbands were sewn, however. The IIIIIII stitching, more common later, was also seen just as frequently, but generally, on older hats, the stitching is much closer together.

Unreeded Sweatband

Unreeded sweatbands were more common on hats of this era, but WERE still seen much later. An unreeded sweatband is not a guarantee of an older hat. I've seen them used on vintage hats of all price ranges, from super-cheap wool felt, to top dollar ones. Unreeded sweatbands do not necessarily reflect quality.

 

[Dinerman]

Colors on 1920s and 1930s sweatbands ranged from very dark brown to almost white. It's not like the switch from brown to black sweatbands which occurred (depending on the manufacturer) in the late 1950s- 1960s.

 

[DOUGLAS]

Nicely done Dman. Do you find that earlier sweats were thinner and wider?

 

[Dinerman]

Embossing on sweatband edge

At the top edge of most later hats, you will either see a smooth embossed line, or a IIIIIIIIIIII line. On earlier hats, the embossing was typically wider and/or deeper. Some, especially derbies, had rolled edges.

Rolled top edge on a Disney

rolled edge from the back - Stetson

Top of sweatband embossing.

notice how the embossing at the top is different from later sweatbands like the one below? How the embossed line is wider, deeper, and causes more of a convex shape to the piece above it?

 

[Dinerman]

Taped vs. Stitched rear sweatband seams

Taped- this is generally what is seen

yes that blue color is correct

Stitched

c1934-1937 Stetson showing stitched sweatband seam

Also interesting to note about this stetson: edge embossing is of the later style. Remember- rules do not hold true for all hats for all details

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Painstaking, wonderful work from another Fedora Lounge hero. Thank you very, very much, D-man! :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap


.

 

[DOUGLAS]

Afew more sweats
Portis

Open Road

Playboy

Boss Raw Edge

The Avenue

Week-Ender

Stetson #1

The Royal Stetson

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Handsome embossing, Douglas! Thanks! :eusa_clap

.

 

[Dinerman]

Nicely done Dman. Do you find that earlier sweats were thinner and wider?

I do. The leather is thinner and softer than on later hats, and wider, that is it extends further towards the crown. I find that it makes for a more comfortable hat.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Just want to toss this example into the mix -- a non-reeded sweat with reed tape sewn on, with the sweat stitched through the reed tape (as described by Mr. Art Fawcett). The johnnyphi auctions feature numerous examples of this method of attaching the sweat, dating from the 1940-ish timeframe:

More on this method in this thread.


Cheers,
JtL

 

[Lefty]

:eusa_clap

 

[ScottF]

I do. The leather is thinner and softer than on later hats, and wider, that is it extends further towards the crown. I find that it makes for a more comfortable hat.

Dinerman - thanks for sharing. The following hat seemed a little odd - sweatband is almost 2" with the orange lining behind it even wider. I don't know the terminology for it all, but apart from the vvvv stitching, then the read, there just seems to be a mess of stitching for a hat band. Can you enlighten me on what's going on with this band? History on the hat says it's probably 40's to early '50s.

 

[Dinerman]

Dinerman - thanks for sharing. The following hat seemed a little odd - sweatband is almost 2" with the orange lining behind it even wider. I don't know the terminology for it all, but apart from the vvvv stitching, then the read, there just seems to be a mess of stitching for a hat band. Can you enlighten me on what's going on with this band? History on the hat says it's probably 40's to early '50s.

That date looks about right. The orange lining is to keep sweat from soaking through or going around the sweatband into the felt- so that the outside ribbon doesn't stain. The reed tape is sewn to the felt in the same manner as an unreeded sweatband, typically a '40s thing- you started seeing it early '40s, and it all but disappeared early '50s.
As to why they did it this way, I can only speculate.

Here's a '50s portis with the same protective layer. Later sweatband logo and different reeding.

Look at the thread posted by jimmythelid for more hats with that type of reeding stitching method

 

[DOUGLAS]

Many hats have "that" material behind the sweat. I have heard it called a sweat shield or onion skin. It is place to protect the felt from sweat that penetrates the leather. I have it on a few pocket Borsalinos that have grosgrain ribbon for a sweat band as well.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

Good idea for a thread. :eusa_clap Here's my contribution,.and a question it raises.
This is the sweatband from a Yale derby I recently acquired. The second derby to recently pass through my hands in good condition. Both hats, the other a Stetson and this Yale, seem to have pigskin leather sweatbands. Judging by the appearance of the grain.
Was this common in older hats,..say before the 1920's?

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

[kaosharper1]

Many hats have "that" material behind the sweat. I have heard it called a sweat shield or onion skin. It is place to protect the felt from sweat that penetrates the leather. I have it on a few pocket Borsalinos that have grosgrain ribbon for a sweat band as well.

When would this type of onionskin be used? I have Wormser Texan with this onionskin behind the sweatband (and over the logo on the top of the crown) and the sweat is unreeded. I've wondered about the dating, but no one seems to know much about Wormsers.

 

[DOUGLAS]

I had Wormser hat that had an unreeded sweat with the onion skin behind it. It was a beautiful hat and as soft as all..... unfortunately it did not fit by a lot so it was passed. I believe the onion skin and the crown shield would be of different materials although i could be wrong. I have seen some behind the sweat that are thicker and colored to translucent amber and super thin.
Dobbs Westward

see the material just above the sweat.
another more amber on a mallory

one from a Stetson twenty dated 1945

one more Stetson

 

[Dinerman]

Good idea for a thread. :eusa_clap Here's my contribution,.and a question it raises.
This is the sweatband from a Yale derby I recently acquired. The second derby to recently pass through my hands in good condition. Both hats, the other a Stetson and this Yale, seem to have pigskin leather sweatbands. Judging by the appearance of the grain.
Was this common in older hats,..say before the 1920's?

This seems to be something you saw commonly prior to the 30s. They seem to have held up well- I wonder what the reasoning was for the changeover.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

This seems to be something you saw commonly prior to the 30s. They seem to have held up well- I wonder what the reasoning was for the changeover.

A shortage of pig skins?? [huh] Pig skin was then starting to be used exclusively for footballs?? lol

 

[jimmy the lid]

Week-Ender

Douglas -- do you have any more info on the Week-ender in terms of dating that lid? (I'm guessing 1940-ish). I have a Stratoliner heading my way with the same perforations in the sweat (although this one is reeded):

Anyone have any other observations about how common this kind of sweat was in Stetson lids? Dates that it might have been in use? etc.?

Cheers,
JtL