AERO's undersized zips

[Aloysius]

Seriously, I think 9 out of 10 people can't even tell the difference between between these and a vintage Talon or Conmar. In fact, I don't think any of my friends have ever heard of Talon so I doubt they'd insist on having one on their jackets.

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Agreed, I would have never given it a second thought before koining here

Ah but who I mean as the people who pushed back were the TFL types, the most vocal of the buyers even if we're not the full number.

That's why I'm saying it's a good thing that the prevailing view here has shifted in favour of the YKK Universals.

 

[Worf]

As Peacoat so correctly put it, the zipper on his Thunderbay was incorrectly installed. Mine (I sent him pics) was "better" BUT it failed soon afterwards. Unzipping itself from the bottom up, time and time again. Like PC I sent mine to Johnson Leathers, replaced it with a better beefier zip and have never looked back. I also had to replace a zip on my Aero Bootlegger... lighter jacket but same problem. Funny enough, I bought a used Steerhide Aero Highwayman of indeterminant age off the Bay and have NEVER had a problem with that one.

Worf

 

[Kunja]

I've basically given up on owning an Aero, and the zippers are one of the biggest reasons. (Note: I have not handled or owned the Universal zipper.) But the very idea that on a super high end, and otherwise super high quality, hand made jacket they would (seemingly knowingly) use a trash zipper... It just doesn't make sense.

And on the other hand I have owned so many vintage jackets with 60 or 80 year old zippers that still work perfectly fine. A sign of the times I guess.

 

[Albe64]

I've basically given up on owning an Aero, and the zippers are one of the biggest reasons. (Note: I have not handled or owned the Universal zipper.) But the very idea that on a super high end, and otherwise super high quality, hand made jacket they would (seemingly knowingly) use a trash zipper... It just doesn't make sense.

And on the other hand I have owned so many vintage jackets with 60 or 80 year old zippers that still work perfectly fine. A sign of the times I guess.

I totally get your point BUT....I cannot find the beauty of Aero's CXL FQHH in any other new product. And I am not saying that "they are the best, period"....but if you are (like I am) so deeply obsessed with that hide and texture since the '80s it's almost impossible to find an alternative. So, I am very glad to try this new Universal (on my Thedis they work amazingly well). By the way, Aero is picking up my jacket for free to change the zip: a very nice customer service!

 

[red devil]

I've basically given up on owning an Aero, and the zippers are one of the biggest reasons. (Note: I have not handled or owned the Universal zipper.) But the very idea that on a super high end, and otherwise super high quality, hand made jacket they would (seemingly knowingly) use a trash zipper... It just doesn't make sense.

And on the other hand I have owned so many vintage jackets with 60 or 80 year old zippers that still work perfectly fine. A sign of the times I guess.

As far as I am aware, they use cheap Talon repros, not decent ones indeed. That being said, Aero is not exactly super high end, there are higher end makers.

I totally get your point BUT....I cannot find the beauty of Aero's CXL FQHH in any other new product. And I am not saying that "they are the best, period"....but if you are (like I am) so deeply obsessed with that hide and texture since the '80s it's almost impossible to find an alternative. So, I am very glad to try this new Universal (on my Thedis they work amazingly well). By the way, Aero is picking up my jacket for free to change the zip: a very nice customer service!

Many companies use CXL FQHH, finding an alternative is not so difficult. I do not own an Aero, but have a CXL FQHH jacket.

 

[Albe64]

As far as I am aware, they use cheap Talon repros, not decent ones indeed. That being said, Aero is not exactly super high end, there are higher end makers.




Many companies use CXL FQHH, finding an alternative is not so difficult. I do not own an Aero, but have a CXL FQHH jacket.

Maybe I am ignorant...I travel around the world visiting stores, I work in fashion since 1995, I have many friends who are makers and designers, I buy leathers since the 80s so....I guess I know a little...I am saying that imho I have never touched/seen a leather like Aero's FQHH in other brands...I am italian, have friends in italian tanneries....never seen that kind of weight and texture in horsehide....But maybe I just don't know or maybe I am heavily biased.

 

[red devil]

Sorry, I am not sure what you are trying to say exactly?

Are you trying to say that Horween CXL is exclusive to only Aero?

 

[Albe64]

Sorry, I am not sure what you are trying to say exactly?

Are you trying to say that Horween CXL is exclusive to only Aero?

Ha ha ha ha...that would be ridicoulous....No, of course. I am saying thay the horsehide used by Aero is unique, I do not find that texture/weight/shine anywhere else...And I am not saying that that is the best, is just that I am personally in love with it. Clear enough? Sorry but I am not english...

 

[red devil]

Nessun problema

 

[Tom71]

I've basically given up on owning an Aero, and the zippers are one of the biggest reasons. (Note: I have not handled or owned the Universal zipper.) But the very idea that on a super high end, and otherwise super high quality, hand made jacket they would (seemingly knowingly) use a trash zipper... It just doesn't make sense.

And on the other hand I have owned so many vintage jackets with 60 or 80 year old zippers that still work perfectly fine. A sign of the times I guess.

Ha ha ha ha...that would be ridicoulous....No, of course. I am saying thay the horsehide used by Aero is unique, I do not find that texture/weight/shine anywhere else...And I am not saying that that is the best, is just that I am personally in love with it. Clear enough? Sorry but I am not english...

I kind of agree.

Many makers are shying away from the heavy CXL and will only assemble thinner alternatives that lack the deep luster of the thick stuff.

Johnson still uses it and Simmons Bilt used to, but the later are now charging a ridiculous “penalty fee, so I guess that doesn’t count any more.

So yeah, Johnson, but as an European, Aero is pretty much exclusive, I guess…

 

[mysternee]

Just wanted to add to this: I put in an order for an Aero a few months ago (have received it, it's great, pics/review soon/eventually), and I was strongly encouraged by Holly to go with the Universal zipper. She specifically mentioned that they've had a lot of issues with the Talon and don't want to use it.

So I think it's probably fair to say that Aero are offering Talon zippers because that's what a lot of customers want/insist on, for the 'authentic' look.

I went Universal because I wanted a zipper that would work. There are always trade-offs in this thing called life!

 

[Tom71]

Just wanted to add to this: I put in an order for an Aero a few months ago (have received it, it's great, pics/review soon/eventually), and I was strongly encouraged by Holly to go with the Universal zipper. She specifically mentioned that they've had a lot of issues with the Talon and don't want to use it.

So I think it's probably fair to say that Aero are offering Talon zippers because that's what a lot of customers want/insist on, for the 'aurhentic' look.

I went Universal because I wanted a zipper that would work. There are always trade-offs in this thing called life!

I am pretty sure, Aero used Talon/Hookless, because of Ken‘s preferences.
Of course, his contributions to the quality leather scene for decades cannot be rated high enough, but he could be stubborn with regard to customer requests he viewed as a departure form the pure path.

I fully belief (without proof, of course), that the introduction (and apparently recent recommendations) of Universal zippers has been driven by Denny/Holly.

 

[mysternee]

I am pretty sure, Aero used Talon/Hookless, because of Ken‘s preferences.
Of course, his contributions to the quality leather scene for decades cannot be rated high enough, but he could be stubborn with regard to customer requests he viewed as a departure form the pure path.

I fully belief (without proof, of course), that the introduction (and apparently recent recommendations) of Universal zippers has been driven by Denny/Holly.

I'm willing to believe that, but in the process of obsessively researching stuff on here over the last 6 months, I've seen so many complaints about the Talons—and recommendations of the Universals—across a span of years, that I have to feel many buyers are making a conscious choice in favor of a particular aesthetic over the durability and functionality of the Universal. It's a perfectly respectable choice, but I do wonder how many complainants knew about the issue before going with it anyway.

Then again, 'knowing' in the sense of being aware of a fact, and 'knowing' in the sense of putting on and taking off your jacket, day-in, day-out, are very different things. Caveat emptor is a cheap saying most often deployed in defense of expensive goods! So I take your point that the emphasis on Talon zippers has been driven by the designer, and a designer has to bear responsibility for problems with a design—even if and when they provide an opt-out.

 

[Aloysius]

I'm willing to believe that, but in the process of obsessively researching stuff on here over the last 6 months, I've seen so many complaints about the Talons—and recommendations of the Universals—across a span of years, that I have to feel many buyers are making a conscious choice in favor of a particular aesthetic over the durability and functionality of the Universal. It's a perfectly respectable choice, but I do wonder how many complainants knew about the issue before going with it anyway.

Like I mentioned earlier, Aero tried to shift to the YKK retro design as a default several years ago but got backlash at the time from us 'core' buyers.

Now I think the market has matured beyond wanting repro Talon pulls only, so the recommendations have shifted.

 

[red devil]

Like I mentioned earlier, Aero tried to shift to the YKK retro design as a default several years ago but got backlash at the time from us 'core' buyers.

Now I think the market has matured beyond wanting repro Talon pulls only, so the recommendations have shifted.

Was the biggest backlash from the military repro guys from that other forum?

 

[Aloysius]

Was the biggest backlash from the military repro guys from that other forum?

I wouldn’t be surprised.

Probably the Japanese buyers too.

 

[Edward]

I'd expect buyers for the milspec stuff want milspec. Why else would you spend big money on an accurate repro A2 and then skimp on the sort of details you're actually paying the money for? Of course, with civilian jacket there's a lot more leeway - there, as long as it looks right....

I've often wondered why somebody like YKK doesn't just develop a Talon-shaped puller, but a google shows Talon is still a going concern - https://taloninternational.com/about-us/ - so it's probably a TM issue.

 

[Aloysius]

I'd expect buyers for the milspec stuff want milspec. Why else would you spend big money on an accurate repro A2 and then skimp on the sort of details you're actually paying the money for? Of course, with civilian jacket there's a lot more leeway - there, as long as it looks right....

I think the repro Talons do just fine with the lightweight horsehides and goatskins used for military jackets. The issue is Aero’s heavyweight civvy designs. The Universal puller isn’t historically inaccurate though.

I've often wondered why somebody like YKK doesn't just develop a Talon-shaped puller, but a google shows Talon is still a going concern - https://taloninternational.com/about-us/ - so it's probably a TM issue.

If I’m not mistaken, that company is an existing major zip and trimmings (including things like the retro cloth labels used by RRL) maker that acquired the Talon name and renamed itself. I expect they have rebranded their own zippers as Talons but it will take some time for repro companies to use up their stock of existing Talon repros.

 

[Edward]

I think the repro Talons do just fine with the lightweight horsehides and goatskins used for military jackets. The issue is Aero’s heavyweight civvy designs. The Universal puller isn’t historically inaccurate though.



If I’m not mistaken, that company is an existing major zip and trimmings (including things like the retro cloth labels used by RRL) maker that acquired the Talon name and renamed itself. I expect they have rebranded their own zippers as Talons but it will take some time for repro companies to use up their stock of existing Talon repros.

I remember there was a bad batch of repros about ten years ago hit a lot of makers across the board.

I used to have one in a goat Aero A2 (since sold, only because it was too small for me) and it was absolutely fine. I think most of my heavier jackets have all been the universal one - a period correct looking puller with 'Aero' stamped on it - never had a problem with any of those. The Hookless I have is also fine, just a little bit fiddlier to start.