Forgive me if this has been asked before. Is A2 sizing different when it comes to establishing the back length? For example, if you generally wear a 27 inch back in a utility jacket, would you ask for the same in an A2? And if it is a different sizing issue, why is that?
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A2 Back Length
- Thread starter Seb Lucas
- Start date
A-2 jackets were originally meant to be worn at waist-length of high waisted trousers, meaning the jacket's knit waist just covers the trouser waist. At that height, the side pockets of the trousers are fully accessible, and the jackets ends just above the side pockets. Of course that would be an ideal fit, we had that discussion lots of times. In the USAAF, crews would wear whatever the quartermaster threw at them. In the Luftwaffe, where waist-length jackets were also worn, pilots bought their jackets privately and could therefore afford the luxury of a good fit. The waist-length jackets on Luftwaffe fighter pilots end just below the trouser waist, leaving the side pockets accessible.
You'll also find photos of pre-WWII American mail pilots who also wore waist-length jackets.
There are also lots of photos of WWII USAAF crew wearing their A-2s with the leather and knit bunched up at the sidepocket because that's how the jacket will eventually "react" when used on high-waisted trousers.
The knit waist sort of "locks in" the jacket into (onto) the trouser waist. If the jacket's just a tad too long (an inch or so), it will bunch up with use. The leather may also bunch up over the knit waist, leaving the knit at the back section invisible - that's because of the "locking in" into the trouser waist. You won't have that happening with modern cut jeans/trousers, most likely. I have pictures of that if you want to see it.
Example of A-2 worn with USAF trousers (same pattern as the WWII greens, typical high waisted trousers):
When you say utility jacket, I guess you mean any period jacket that is neither a flight nor motorcycle jacket. They came in all kinds of back lengths, including some with waist length.
You'll also find photos of pre-WWII American mail pilots who also wore waist-length jackets.
There are also lots of photos of WWII USAAF crew wearing their A-2s with the leather and knit bunched up at the sidepocket because that's how the jacket will eventually "react" when used on high-waisted trousers.
The knit waist sort of "locks in" the jacket into (onto) the trouser waist. If the jacket's just a tad too long (an inch or so), it will bunch up with use. The leather may also bunch up over the knit waist, leaving the knit at the back section invisible - that's because of the "locking in" into the trouser waist. You won't have that happening with modern cut jeans/trousers, most likely. I have pictures of that if you want to see it.
Example of A-2 worn with USAF trousers (same pattern as the WWII greens, typical high waisted trousers):
When you say utility jacket, I guess you mean any period jacket that is neither a flight nor motorcycle jacket. They came in all kinds of back lengths, including some with waist length.
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Thanks for your considered response, Rabbit. I wear mid-rise trousers and jeans so I want my jacket a bit longer than yours.
Regarding different jacket styles, having owned dozens of vintage and new jackets over 30 years almost every pattern I like is best on me at 26-27 inches in length - from a cafe racer to a half-belt.
I guess my question is do people who wear shorter style leather jackets without knits, generally go shorter or longer in an A2? I seem to remember people here saying to go longer by about 2 inches. And yes, I'm aware we can endlessly parse the notion of what length goes with what particular jacket's purpose - I'm just after a rule of thumb.
Regarding different jacket styles, having owned dozens of vintage and new jackets over 30 years almost every pattern I like is best on me at 26-27 inches in length - from a cafe racer to a half-belt.
I guess my question is do people who wear shorter style leather jackets without knits, generally go shorter or longer in an A2? I seem to remember people here saying to go longer by about 2 inches. And yes, I'm aware we can endlessly parse the notion of what length goes with what particular jacket's purpose - I'm just after a rule of thumb.
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dudewuttheheck
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In my experience, a 27in back utility jacket would probably correspond to a reasonably shorter A2.
My A2 jacket ends just below my belt even on my very low rise jeans (less than 10in front rise) and that is perfect for me. I generally would take a 27 in utility jackets and my A2 is 25inch in the back with the knits and I think it fits perfect. I'm getting used to it, but I am starting to like this shorter jacket length thing!
Please excuse the horrible picture quality, but this is my (IMO perfect fitting) RMC Roughwear A2:
My A2 jacket ends just below my belt even on my very low rise jeans (less than 10in front rise) and that is perfect for me. I generally would take a 27 in utility jackets and my A2 is 25inch in the back with the knits and I think it fits perfect. I'm getting used to it, but I am starting to like this shorter jacket length thing!
Please excuse the horrible picture quality, but this is my (IMO perfect fitting) RMC Roughwear A2:
Okay, short jackets without knits: I guess there isn't any rule of thumb. Go for whatever you prefer.
A few pics:
Shorter or longer than an A-2 as worn with high waisted trousers? Not shorter, as A-2s are already near to the upper limit.
Here's a non-knit jacket worn extremely short, revealing the trouser waist:
Same length as A-2s? Depends on the jacket style. Here's another Luftwaffe example:
Here's a 30s presumably German jacket that happens to be a little longer, but still short enough to access the side pockets:
Example of how the A-2 bunches up (over time) when worn a little too long for the trousers:
Almost "ideal" length A-2s; the knit at the back is most likely bunched under the leather:
Some civilan wiast length jackets without knits:
And finally here's how on a modern cut jeans, the A-2 knit waist won't be locked into the trouser waist because the jeans waist is much lower, thus the jacket waist sits lower (yes, the jacket is unzipped but that doesn't make any difference on these jeans, really it doesn't). Same jacket as in the other post, compare the effective length:
A few pics:
Shorter or longer than an A-2 as worn with high waisted trousers? Not shorter, as A-2s are already near to the upper limit.
Here's a non-knit jacket worn extremely short, revealing the trouser waist:
Same length as A-2s? Depends on the jacket style. Here's another Luftwaffe example:
Here's a 30s presumably German jacket that happens to be a little longer, but still short enough to access the side pockets:
Example of how the A-2 bunches up (over time) when worn a little too long for the trousers:
Almost "ideal" length A-2s; the knit at the back is most likely bunched under the leather:
Some civilan wiast length jackets without knits:
And finally here's how on a modern cut jeans, the A-2 knit waist won't be locked into the trouser waist because the jeans waist is much lower, thus the jacket waist sits lower (yes, the jacket is unzipped but that doesn't make any difference on these jeans, really it doesn't). Same jacket as in the other post, compare the effective length:
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dudewuttheheck
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The jacket looks much better in those jeans.
The guys wearing those civilian knitless jobbies looks like they're wearing some 12 year old kid's jacket. :eeek:
Thanks Dude. Your A2 is pretty short.
Yes it is fairly short, but I like it that way. Personally, I don't like when A2s are on the longer side. It looks wrong to me. Actually, I've come to prefer shorter leather jackets in general over time.
Ah ha. I've come to prefer longer.
dudewuttheheck
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Haha. As if maker, leather, tannage, horsehide vs. cowhide, etc weren't enough, we need to add length to the list of disagreements
I like tighter/smaller fitting leathers in general. This jacket is actually quite a snug fit in the shoulders and the chest, but I think it looks better that way. In fact, the jacket rabbit posted looks a little long to me personally (though it is a beautiful jacket for sure!)
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25" back length Aero Real Deal...
26 1/2 Aero utility jacket...
6'2"..but body lengths do vary.
26 1/2 Aero utility jacket...
6'2"..but body lengths do vary.
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nick123
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This is 25.5 and the shortest I'll go when I go there. My sweet spot is around 26.5" though I'll wear 27.5" (but it creates a casual look). The tradeoff for me is that shorter A-2s can often look more stylish, while I feel more comfortable/confident/natural with longer jackets than ideal, even though they may approach an untidy look visually. I've grown to prefer the loose and long "Harrison Ford" fit rather than the ideal short/slim fit. Idk why really.
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kowalski
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Haha. As if maker, leather, tannage, horsehide vs. cowhide, etc weren't enough, we need to add length to the list of disagreements
I like tighter/smaller fitting leathers in general. This jacket is actually quite a snug fit in the shoulders and the chest, but I think it looks better that way. In fact, the jacket rabbit posted looks a little long to me personally (though it is a beautiful jacket for sure!)
put your hands up , if down jacket discovers his back and kidneys i think so that it is too short
I'm sorry, but here in forum a lot of jackets looks like it was tailored for smaller brothers, are too skin tight ,made from for smaller brothers
unfortunately
( with sleeves)
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herringbonekid
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what back length is that first jacket you posted Nik ?
nick123
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25.5 inches.
Here's 27.5" for comparison. I actually prefer this look (with acknowledgement it's a bit long/big).
kowalski
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it looksvery good .!!
HBK, if you mean me - the oilpull A-2 has a back length of 60.0cm/ 23.6".
My other A-2 in tumbled FQHH is 59.0cm/ 23.2".
Note that the 1930s halfbelt is only 54.3cm/ 21.4"!!!
All of them are measured from the neck seam and including the knit.
The way the knit waistband locks into the trouser waist has an effect on the length when worn with high-waisted trousers, even when worn unzipped. The more waist suppression the jacket pattern has, the stronger the "locking-in"-effect, so the slimmer contract in the link below sits higher on me. The halfbelt in contrast hangs freely.
On low-rise jeans, that effect is lost.
Here's a comparison (with measurements) of these two A-2s which are made in very different patterns. The oilpull is one of the most roomy wartime Aero patterns (40"/34" chest to waist drop), the FQHH is very slim at the waist (40"/30"). Even 34" may sound tight to you, but you have to account for the knit waistband. That 30" jacket waist when zipped sits snug over the 30" trouser waist, but not constricting in any way.
Fits of Aero A2 lineup, post #13
My other A-2 in tumbled FQHH is 59.0cm/ 23.2".
Note that the 1930s halfbelt is only 54.3cm/ 21.4"!!!
All of them are measured from the neck seam and including the knit.
The way the knit waistband locks into the trouser waist has an effect on the length when worn with high-waisted trousers, even when worn unzipped. The more waist suppression the jacket pattern has, the stronger the "locking-in"-effect, so the slimmer contract in the link below sits higher on me. The halfbelt in contrast hangs freely.
On low-rise jeans, that effect is lost.
Here's a comparison (with measurements) of these two A-2s which are made in very different patterns. The oilpull is one of the most roomy wartime Aero patterns (40"/34" chest to waist drop), the FQHH is very slim at the waist (40"/30"). Even 34" may sound tight to you, but you have to account for the knit waistband. That 30" jacket waist when zipped sits snug over the 30" trouser waist, but not constricting in any way.
Fits of Aero A2 lineup, post #13
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herringbonekid
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sorry Nick123, i meant Rabbit (Nik)
