What Hatco COULD produce with modern materials and different blocks

jlee562 · Dec 19, 2012

Nice work on the hat Josh!

However, I'm with Robert in being a bit weary of the "if you build it, they will come" logic. I actually have seen some wider brims in and around SF, and several of the vintage stores on the Haight have a good selection of vintage lids. But I just don't see them making a huge comeback.

I distinctly remember HATCO telling us that they sold less than 300 units of the Nostaliga per year. That was a taller crowned hat, with a wider brim, open crown even! While I would love to see some more variety from Hatco, I'm not sure that there's a huge market that they're missing out on.

The Wiser Hatter · Dec 19, 2012

Josh great job getting that block to work with that body.
Would Hatco make this hat the answer would be no.
Based on the great strat bust that came out of the Hatco
FedoraFest. They had a order for a strat based on classic
Lines. An could not produce it. In days past many hat profile
Blocks where used and would change by season.
Yet today factory hats use the same stamped block season after season and wonder why they have low sells. They are self defeating by continuing to in offering the same block style for every hat they sell.

mayserwegener · Dec 19, 2012

Joshbru3 said:
Thank you very much, Gentlemen!!! Even if Hatco never produces a hat like this, its always nice to know that for less than $150 you can buy your own factory hat, take it apart, and redo it. I guess its kind of like hot rods, many people want something more than whats put out of the factory, so they customize their cars to their personal likings.

Josh, Fantastic conversion!

Lotsahats · Dec 19, 2012

Wow. I would LOVE to have the knowledge, tools, and skills to to this! Well done.

Aaron

Joshbru3 · Dec 19, 2012

jlee562 said:
.....I distinctly remember HATCO telling us that they sold less than 300 units of the Nostaliga per year. That was a taller crowned hat, with a wider brim, open crown even! While I would love to see some more variety from Hatco, I'm not sure that there's a huge market that they're missing out on.

Thanks, Jared!

Hatco sold less than 300 units a year of the Nostalgia because the average person couldn't buy it anywhere. It was sold online and in a few local hat shops. If that hat was carried in major department store chains, advertised in magazines like other popular hats, and a marketing campaign was set behind it explaining how to crease your own hat, they would have sold a ton more. The problem is availability. If you ask most non-loungers where the nearest hat store is, they would have no clue. If you asked most non-loungers how to crease a hat, they would have no clue. Advertising is about telling people what they want, not putting out a product and seeing if it will sell. I don't like that mentality, but unfortunately it seems like that's how products are pushed today. Hatco made that hat with little or no advertising. If they had a full page ad in GQ magazine for example and had some ad that said, "Do you remember your fathers hats and grandfathers hats? Now you can be Nostalgic about the good old days with the Stetson Nostalgia." Or something like that. Hatco even admitted that most of their advertising goes towards their westerns and not their dress hats. We see from the golden days of hats that even when more people wore hats, companies like Stetson, Dobbs, Knox, etc had full page ads in many national magazines.

hatophile · Dec 19, 2012

Josh, great job on that. I have seen some nice looking modern hats but shied away because of the tapered crown. Who knows? With the vintage shows like Boardwalk and movies like the Gangster Squad, maybe the general population will start considering the hat profiles of the Golden Era.

Either way, it's fun to play with those modifications.

casechopper · Dec 19, 2012

Maybe this would be a good niche for someone to fill... Reblocked productions hats? How much less time would it take to do this as compared to building a hat from scratch? I'd assume not having to pounce the felt would save some time.

Joshbru3 · Dec 19, 2012

Blackthorn said:
Wow!

RBH said:
Fine job Josh!
I knew it would turn out good, your work is fantastic.
Most of the current hats made now could be made better by the simple use of a different block.
Just look at the reblock Rocky did on my milan Stratoliner.
And your work on this is the proof in the pudding.

Well done!

The Wiser Hatter said:
Josh great job getting that block to work with that body.
Would Hatco make this hat the answer would be no.
Based on the great strat bust that came out of the Hatco
FedoraFest. They had a order for a strat based on classic
Lines. An could not produce it. In days past many hat profile
Blocks where used and would change by season.
Yet today factory hats use the same stamped block season after season and wonder why they have low sells. They are self defeating by continuing to in offering the same block style for every hat they sell.

mayserwegener said:
Josh, Fantastic conversion!

Lotsahats said:
Wow. I would LOVE to have the knowledge, tools, and skills to to this! Well done.

Aaron

hatophile said:
Josh, great job on that. I have seen some nice looking modern hats but shied away because of the tapered crown. Who knows? With the vintage shows like Boardwalk and movies like the Gangster Squad, maybe the general population will start considering the hat profiles of the Golden Era.

Either way, it's fun to play with those modifications.

Thank you so very much EVERYONE for all the wonderful comments!!! It was a pleasure doing this project and if I took away nothing else from this project it was that it IS possible for Hatco to make and market this hat. Will they, most likely not, but they could with nothing other than some different blocks. They probably even have tall blocks like this for some of their westerns. If nothing else, I have a hat that I can wear and not worry about getting messed up.

mayserwegener · Dec 19, 2012

The Wiser Hatter said:
Yet today factory hats use the same stamped block season after season and wonder why they have low sells. They are self defeating by continuing to in offering the same block style for every hat they sell.

I have no idea of HATCO process but when I visited TONAK they actually start with an open crown and then use metal molds for final block & flange.

Joshbru3 · Dec 19, 2012

mayserwegener said:
I have no idea of HATCO process but when I visited TONAK they actually start with an open crown and then use metal molds for final block & flange.

That's what Hatco does as well. The problem is the open crown block that they start out with. Even as a compromise to my suggestions, they could use a nice straight block to start and then if they have to use a metal block to crease it down to something short, they could do that as well. At least it would give us guys an option to open the crown back up and reshape it into something desirable.

rlk · Dec 19, 2012

I seem to recall Hatco telling just how extremely expensive ads were in major Magazines. Even the most popular hats might well have sales unable to support the investment in such advertisement today.

Grizzly Adams · Dec 19, 2012

Great job, and a great improvement!:eusa_clap

As to Hatco's marketing, I suspect they did not just fall off the wagon, and would be happy to make whatever they feel they can sell.........I suspect that you could wear your conversion one day and the standard version the next day and never have anyone notice the difference - unless, of course, they are members of this distinguished company of gentlemen!

Gin&Tonics · Dec 19, 2012

What an incredible difference! Awesome work.

alanfgag · Dec 20, 2012

I love your project and the detailed description, Josh... beautifully done and shared.

I took to watching Boardwalk Empire this past season and was somewhat amazed at the hat styling in the movie. There is little effort, to my eye, to create an accurate portrayal of the period. Some of the lead hats actually make me wince. Is it a decision based on careless research or limited supplies (I've heard from Gary White that he has made quite a few hats for the show) or is it a thought through plan to meld contemporary style with a vintage "flavor."

I think if we could sell Bruno Mars on a 52 block, there might be hope.

jlee562 · Dec 20, 2012

Bruno likes Borsos (at least, that's what he was wearing on his most recent Saturday Night Live appearance).

tonyb · Dec 20, 2012

rlk said:
How many do you think that is?

Hatco and Optimo experience(Very few tall straight crowns sell) would indicate a rather limited market and an investment in multiple complete sets of blocks in all sizes and marketing...
Although the general hat wearing population is much smaller than in Vintage times, the majority are more style concerned rather than having any association with Vintage appearance. I have no illusions that my tastes necessarily appeal to the general population(nor do I care).

Yup.

Remember what a sales flop the Stetson Nostalgia was? All the best evidence would indicate that those of us who favor the full, tall, relatively straight-sided crowns (in other words, those of us with taste) are in the minority. And a small minority of a small minority at that. C'est la vie.

This is not to even suggest that Josh's efforts aren't worthwhile. He made what, to my eyes, is a much better looking hat from that thing.

I know this wouldn't be in keeping with Josh's "experiment," but if it were mine I would have replaced that bonded leather (I think that's what it is) sweatband with something better.

It's still a mystery to me that the shorter, more tapered crowns would sell better than the taller, straighter ones, but I don't believe there's much doubting it. I recall being fond of Open Roads (back when they still came with open crowns from the factory) as far back as the early 1970s, although at that time I had neither the experience nor the vocabulary to say that what I most liked about them, what set them apart from less desirable styles, was that tall, straight crown they had back then. (Well, at least they had it when new, before getting wet and dry and wet and dry over and over again, which caused them to shrink and taper.)

hatophile · Dec 20, 2012

We have to remember too that it's been over 50 years since the taller straighter crowns were in style. When I was growing up in the 60's men that wore hats usually wore the stingy tapered kind. Every so often you might see an Open Road on a farmer.
So today's hat wearers, unless they watch old movies are going to be used to those latest incarnations.

Brad Bowers · Dec 20, 2012

My God, Josh, that's fantastic! I love what you've done. I still think there's a market for taller crowns, as I get comments on my vintage and Bowers brand hats asking where to get a hat like that. I worked with HATCO for a awhile, trying to revive the Crofut & Knapp brand or offer exclusive Dobbs hats with that kind of profile, but nothing came of it. You're right, they need new blocks.

Brad

tonyb · Dec 20, 2012

hatophile said:
We have to remember too that it's been over 50 years since the taller straighter crowns were in style. When I was growing up in the 60's men that wore hats usually wore the stingy tapered kind. Every so often you might see an Open Road on a farmer.
So today's hat wearers, unless they watch old movies are going to be used to those latest incarnations.

When I think of '60s hats my mind goes, rightly or wrongly, to roundish men in suits with skinny lapels and in short-brimmed, tapered-crowned hats. You know, Jack Ruby.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the challenges facing the makers of "dress" hats (as opposed to Westerns) is finding a market for them. I ain't privy to Hatco's or Dorfman Pacific's or any other big manufacturer's sales figures, but I'd wager that the Westerns still outsell fedoras by a large, large margin. Perhaps this minor upsurge in "city" hats, fueled by the recent stingy-brim fad, will go some ways toward shifting that balance. Perhaps some people who wouldn't have considered a fedora will discover the will to wear one, regardless of brim width.

Like Brad, and perhaps most of us, I, too, get favorable comments about my hats on an almost daily basis. I rarely volunteer that I made the hat myself, as that inevitably leads to a minutes-long conversation that is essentially a replay of every other conversation I've had with strangers who asked about my hat. The people mean well, so of course I'm polite and say thank you when they tell me how much they like it, etc. And of course I give them a business card when they ask for one. And of course that's the last I ever hear from them.

Hoyt Clagwell · Dec 20, 2012

Great job on a nice looking hat. As the Czechs would say DOBRY!

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